Building a Country on the Internet

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Adrian Salazar

Many organizations and business leaders see the internet as a tool, a way to expand their reach and connect with new customers, clients, and partners across the globe.

Luis Adrian Salazar sees it a little bit differently. He and his fully remote company, SafetyWing, are working to build a “country” on the internet, removing the barrier of geographical borders to create equal opportunities, freedom, and a social safety net for people all over the world.

Learn more about SafetyWing here:

**What leads to a happy life? What are the various ways to be happy? Happiness means different things to each of us.  After doing extensive research, Management 3.0 founder Jurgen Appelo discovered the common thread: Happiness is something we create. It is not something to achieve. It is a path you choose, not a destination to arrive at.

So many of us spend our lives in pursuit of happiness. Instead of searching for it, we need to find ways to live it, embrace it, and implement it into our daily lives. That’s why we created the 12 Steps to Happiness at Management 3.0. You can find more information and even download a free poster of the 12 steps at

Key Points

  • A safety net for everyone regardless of nationality – a pipedream?
  • The importance of recruiting right
  • Building culture when everyone is remote


*Please note that the transcript has been automatically generated and proofread for mistakes. But remains in spoken English, and some syntax and grammar mistakes might remain.

Elisa Tuijnder: [00:00:00] Many organizations and business leaders see the internet as a tool, a way to expand their reach and connect with new customers, clients, and partners across the globe. Our guest today sees it a little bit differently. He and his company are working to build a country on the internet, removing the barrier of geographical borders to create equal opportunities, freedom, and a social safety net for people all over the world.

Before we dive in, you are listening to The Happiness At Work podcast by Management 3.0 where we are getting serious about happiness.

I’m your host, Elisa Tuijnder, happiness [00:01:00] enthusiast and Management 3.0 team member. In this podcast, we share insights from industry experts, influencers, and thought leaders about what it takes to be happy, motivated, and productive at work, so that loving your job becomes the norm and not the exception. We’ll be publishing every fortnight on Friday, so be sure to tune in and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

Our guest today is Adrian Salazar, head of Culture and Integrity at Safety Wing. A fully remote organization launched in 2018. Dedicated to building a global social safety net. Thank you so much for joining us, Adrian.

Luis Adrian Salazar: Hey, thanks

for having me.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, no, thank you so much for joining. Hey, we’ll get into the fantastic work that SafetyWing does and the fascinating mission that y’all have in just a moment. But here on the podcast, we [00:02:00] always start with the same question. What does happiness mean to you?

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah. Yeah. I heard a few episodes before and that is a very difficult question. Happiness is, to me is like something like it’s almost you’re blessed with at certain moments in your life. It doesn’t seem to be a particularly good thing to optimize for because I don’t think you can actually generate happiness seems very out of our control as human beings, so you’re blessed with it from time to.

And though you can create an environment that is conducive to some of these moments, I think it’s futile to optimize for happiness or even try to haul onto happiness. It’s just a matter, in my opinion, of enjoying it while it lasts.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. So slightly pessimistic view on, on it, but yeah, , I like it.

It’s, [00:03:00] or maybe a realistic instead of pessimistic sounds so negative, but yeah. . Hey. So I think the question a lot of our listeners have is that, they hear SafetyWing, but, and a global social safety net. But, what is that? What does that mean? How do we see that?

Can you explain a little bit?

Luis Adrian Salazar: Sure. Sure. So a social safety net kind of difficult concept to explain, but it’s like the minimum standard for a person’s wellbeing. That standard is defined by society. So that’s a, a good definition. And in order for it to work, what this society has to do is to contribute resources somehow.

Say money. That’s one resource. So it’s just just like a circus safety net. So you, you have this like circus performers walking through the tide rope. Yeah. Yeah. And if this [00:04:00] person falls, we have this safety net, which it doesn’t prevent you from falling, but it prevents you from hurting yourself.

Like potentially forever. Yeah. Potentially. Mortally. Yeah. Yeah. It’s designed to be there in case you fall and it helps you getting back up. That’s ideally a social safetynet. Yeah, that

Elisa Tuijnder: Sounds, sounds ideal. Sounds good. And you know why? Why do you think it’s so important? Cuz all of the not all that is a big overstatement, but a lot of countries have that or provide that.

So why is it so important to have one in this interconnected world and one that is detached from, a geographical area?

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah. Yeah. No, I think that is partially true. Depends on where you are born. Absolutely. Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: I corrected myself quickly there.

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah. Yeah. There are a few gaps.

I have like personal experience with this because I’m Peruvian, born and raised. In Lima, Peru, [00:05:00] and we don’t have a social safety net. If you are badly hurt, say you were in an accident, you go to hospital, if you don’t have money, you don’t get anything basically. So it’s pretty cruel in a way.

So there are certain gaps. That’s one gap. The country in which you were born. There are other gaps, for example, digital nomads and remote workers. It’s never clear how this thing works. . I’ve been traveling with my family for a while. Like I have two sons and a wife. And so we were traveling and actually being a SafetyWing customer was incredibly useful because we did have a few like health issues along the way.

I’m laughing at it, but they were pretty serious stuff. We, sorry, actually use our yeah, no, it’s okay now. So we actually used this component of a global social safety net, which is health insurance to, get [00:06:00] the help that we needed. So those are a couple of gaps.

Like not everyone has access to this. You don’t have access to this everywhere. So we’re trying to solve for those gaps to create hopefully, a better standard worldwide.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. And that would be great that everybody could access the sort of level of care, and the level of social safety that we have in the European Union context.

So yes,

Luis Adrian Salazar: I think that what’s fascinating and particularly in SafetyWing, is that we have like people from all over the world. I think we don’t have people from Antarctica or something. That’s the only exception. . But because we do, and we hire for great culture fit, which is a combination of like mission alignment and value alignment, everyone brings their, like backgrounds and like childhood to the mix.

For me being mission aligned being Peruvian, being born and raised in this sort of [00:07:00] context is different than, for example, our founders who are Norwegian. So they have a wonderful social safety net. So mine is like aspirational. I want this for my kids and I think theirs is more like sharing something wonderful that they’ve known for so long.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that’s the beauty of that and bringing those different types types of people together and creating something. I like that is, is, yeah. Fantastic. So you, at SafetyWing, you’re the head of culture and integrity, tell us about that.

What do you do how do you bring out that culture in people as well as a secondary question?

Luis Adrian Salazar: That is a good question. That’s a, like a tough question. For a variety of reasons. One is that this is my first experience as culture, people person. And the other one is that I don’t think there is like a manual to [00:08:00] implement a good culture.

No, it, there is not even a definition for what a good culture is because that depends on what you’re trying to achieve and the people who you’re working with. In Safety Wing, I think culture is mostly an aspirational thing. Because otherwise, if you think like your culture is perfect, you’re probably missing out.

It’s like personal values, like you’re good, but you can be better. We’re always trying to optimize for these like long-term concepts. So part of my work is to measure how we are currently doing and to compare to what we as a group believe the ideal is. And, there are a bunch of tools to do that eNPS and, other like best practices.

I love listening. So I have one-on-ones with everyone in the company. I think that’s a great practice. So measuring and comparing and recalibrating as you [00:09:00] go because it turns out that it’s very hard to predict and forecast and even decide or define what ideal is. So there is a lot of recalibration going on.

It’s small and you have to be careful with how you, you do these things because, because sometimes cultures drift. And so you have to be aware whether this is an intentional change or whether we’re drifting. So it’s, taking it slowly, generally a good idea. Again, listening, there is a big component of internal communication, like celebrating wins, for example.

I love. I love when we have like remarkably high eNPS in a certain team. Like I love that I just tell the whole company about it and everyone feels very proud. And like we have teams with a hundred eNPS , which is that is

Elisa Tuijnder: incredible. Yeah. That is . Yeah. Sounds like a pipe dream.

Luis Adrian Salazar: Where do you go from there?

Yeah. Yes. [00:10:00] Yes. It’s hard. And then there’s this also this integrity component, which is I think, crucial to my role. Which is something like in life and in companies, you get these two areas of motivation. One is like values and the other one is like interests. And they conflict many times. So living with integrity seems to be something like being aligned with your values and principles and always and never compromising.

That’s like a hundred percent. Even if something is very interesting even if there is a quick win there for you. So part of my role, I believe, is to be aware of situations through the company and when we are at risk, in my opinion, of reaching that integrity just point to it. Yeah,

Elisa Tuijnder: that’s super.

A follow up question in the sense of [00:11:00] I’m assuming that there was, at the founding of SafetyWing, there was some kind of, I don’t know, I don’t wanna say manifesto, but at least a value statement and what we stand for, et cetera. And that your culture and your integrity and all of that should align with that.

So I’m wondering whether that has changed over the years as well, since 2018, whether, you talked about drifting, but also is there a feeling that some things have changed, especially. Because of the pandemic, because more remote work, et cetera.

Luis Adrian Salazar: That’s a good question.

Remarkably little has changed. And maybe that’s good. I wasn’t here. . Yeah, maybe that’s good. Like opportunity calls. We don’t really know , but it seems like a good idea. It seems like we’re doing very well. I think we’re doing very well. But I wasn’t here when the company was founded. Sondre our founder and CEO.

I think, instrumental in creating this culture, in, in documenting it. And I think he did a an amazing [00:12:00] job. That’s one of the reasons why I joined Safe Wing. I saw a company that was living their values was mission driven. Like for real, not like instrumentally. Mission driven, not

Elisa Tuijnder: not mission washing it.

It basically . .

Luis Adrian Salazar: . . Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Things change, things evolve. We take it very seriously. And when I say we, I mean everyone, like everyone in SafetyWing takes it very seriously. When I joined, I had this I did one-on-ones with everyone in the company.

We were much smaller back then. And I was shocked to see how people were super like, I guess apprehensive in a way because I was a new guy. And my, and culture wasn’t my title, so they were like telling me, Hey, this is a culture. Pay attention. They weren’t aggressive, but I love that experience.


Elisa Tuijnder: Live living and yeah, it’s so [00:13:00] important. I am somebody who really needs to believe in what she does and be aligned with the company that I work for. And I can totally tell that everybody I’ve spoken to in SafetyWing is like that as well. So that’s definitely a testimony to the company.

Hey, so one of the things that is particularly interesting in that respect as well is that it’s a fully remote company. It’s a fully remote company since its founding, so that’s 2018. , it’s fully, it’s super global, so , I wanna see basically how you manage to keep that culture alive and how you keep yourself connected while being fully remote.

And I know that sometimes come together, but not since the company’s growing, it’s probably harder to come with everybody. So I dunno if you wanted to explain a little bit further around that. Is that really around that mission that the company has and that’s so strong and so permeates that it holds, that’s the glue that holds everything together?

Or is there other things that you have to work on as well there?

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah, [00:14:00] that’s fascinating. So SafetyWing is like remote only doesn’t, we don’t have an office or something. I guess we do have some sort of, we have the SafetyWing house, which you can visit, but you can visit. It’s not that you have to go.

And I think like the intention for this is super clear. I think global is the way to go. Like talent is global. It’s also part of our of our purpose to create freedom and equal opportunity. So it seems to be very consistent. About maintaining the culture, being fully remote.

I think the biggest component here, the most important component is that we, and this is not my job so I’m not taking credit for this, but we hire the right people that is so important. Like we don’t compromise on culture alignment and that basically means mission alignment and values. [00:15:00] And there is some sort of like also conduct DNA behavior type of thing that seems to be very consistent, but we don’t really optimize for, so it happens organically.

So hiring right, extremely important. Like you, you just won half of the battle there. And then I think our values are very useful. We have one that is be good to each other and that is all. Being charitable in interpretation, particularly when you like read a Slack message at 11:00 PM and , you’re under pressure and this person is probably tired or stressed or something.

You have to be calm and be charitable and think that this person means the best. And I think that it’s not that hard, it’s hard for people to be charitable sometimes, but when you have a common mission. It’s like having children in our relationship. Now you have this common objective [00:16:00] and it seems like you can behave because you share this thing with another person, and you tend to be more careful with maintaining a healthy relationship.

So maybe that addresses the question. I forgot really the question, but hopefully does. Yeah.


Elisa Tuijnder: done a, we’ve done a bit of a roundabout. No, I think it does. And I think, I take away hiring right? And don’t compromise on values and that’s really hard because obviously, people can tell you things, but they might not necessarily really believe in them.

True. So having that really strong recruitment people is really important There. Yeah, then the staying true to those values and be kind is a really important one, how has it been, how has it been for you personally to work? I dunno you worked in different things before, but to work in a fully remote company, has it allowed you, cuz obviously you have your family, but you traveled with them what’s been the benefits for you and the drawbacks of working for a fully remote company?[00:17:00]

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah, so I’m, I don’t know if I’m a sort of anomaly or not like I don’t have a way to calibrate this, but I’ve never worked in an office in my life. No. Good good for you. Alright. So I’m like, I’m 30, almost 35, and I started working when I was 15. So it’s been almost good 20 years of that. So I don’t know how to compare these.

I can tell you what I love about remote working. I love I have many interests like music and like physical fitness and art and photography, and I have two boys. I love spending time with them. I like, I love driving my nine year old to school in the mornings. I want time to meditate.

I love being the architect of my life, and to me, work, my job is a central piece of my [00:18:00] life. Like it’s not about deprioritizing work, it’s about integrating work into your own version of life. So yeah, time and how to manage my time. That’s to me thats the crucial benefit of remote working. Another one is like choosing where to live.

Like I’m in Medillin Colombia now. It’s a beautiful city. I love it here. The weather is just, you go from tshirt to leather jacket, that’s it, there’s no more room for anything. And then I was in Panama City working, in front of the ocean and the jungle. And it’s just fantastic as you know to be able to be mobile.

But then of course you have the drawbacks, which are very real depending on personality types and other things. But, drawing a line between life and work that is, is hard. That is hard, [00:19:00] particularly if you like your job. So that’s a drawback. My version of how to solve for that is, and again, I’ve been doing it for so long that it’s all I know is that I don’t have a line between work and life, and I just flow through both of them.

And I feel okay with it. That doesn’t mean that I’m not stressed or anything. That means that it just, I take it very seriously and naturally, and that’s how I cope with it. Some people struggle with like self-management, and that’s a thing. Oh, I don’t have meetings today. I don’t have to go out.

Probably just one shower today. Or, I’ll eat all day long because I’m home. I have like snacks available like you you have to be able to self-manage. And it’s harder without the social accountability component. It really is. Yeah. It is right. Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. It [00:20:00] is. I struggle with, because I travel a lot, like I move around a lot and every time I have to set up this routine and that setting of that routine is really hard. And then if you Yeah. Move too often, it’s . It’s it’s always trying to find the best way to as productive as possible. Not always, but it’s also okay to be not productive, but.

Luis Adrian Salazar: Setting up those routines each times even like going to different Airbnbs, there’s no hot water here or something happens, or I don’t have the thing.

So it’s full of challenges. And I don’t, I’m not like, I don’t think remote working for everyone either. I think that there is people who are, who need that social accountability or maybe very extroverted people who just need and feed off the energy and of others like, that’s cool. It’s not for everyone and I think that’s good.


Elisa Tuijnder: it’s that’s fair enough. We need everything , but it’s fun. It’s great that it’s there, [00:21:00] that it’s, that it exists and that it’s more oh, definitely it always existed, it, that is more socially acceptable and that more companies are experimenting whether than and hopefully are going to continue to experiment with it.

What leads to a happy life? What are the various ways to be happy? Happiness means different things to each of us. Yet after doing extensive research Management 3.0, founder Jurgen Appelo, discovered a common thread. Happiness is something we create. It is not something to achieve. It is a path you choose, not a destination to arrive at.

So many of us spent our times in pursuit of happiness, yet instead of searching for it. We need to find ways to live it, embrace it, and implement it into our daily lives. We created the 12 steps to Happiness at Management 3.0. [00:22:00] You can find more information and even download a free poster of the 12steps practice.

So one of SafetyWings’s stated missions is to create a country on the internet. So I’m really curious what that means and what that looks

Luis Adrian Salazar: like. Yeah. Okay. So I’ll give you my version of this because we’re talking about something that doesn’t exist yet, so it’s abstract. And I also say this is not an official version of this, but my interpretation.

So I’ll start with the outcome. Why do we want to create a country on the internet. And that is freedom and equal opportunity for everyone. So freedom and equal opportunity that’s the goal. And it seems even like historically your country of origin seems to [00:23:00] determine your access to opportunity, resources, stability.

Yes. And freedom to do whatever you want to do. It restricts like your access to economic resources, your access to even movement, like where you can go. So it’s a, it’s the key factor. So we’re trying to solve for that. So a country on the internet in my opinion is like a, it’s almost like a citizenship as a membership type of deal.

So now we have a few products and those are like a component of a social safety net that is global, we’ll have more, and that is like the foundation for this country on the internet, which is not going to be, I don’t think exactly as every other country. We won’t have land or something like that. I’m, but we’ll, maybe if we succeed, we’ll be able to provide this better starting point [00:24:00] for everyone.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. Yeah. It’s great. I think if I’d have. I think if I’d have a magical wand, one of my first wishes would be to have no more borters, just, all be world citizens. So that is what you’re trying to do without my magical wand idea. .

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah. Why do

Elisa Tuijnder: you think Just a lot of work.

Yeah. I bet it’s a lot, it’s a lot of legal and a lot of traditional norms that you have to fight against. So I’m really happy that you’re taking on these challenges. Do you think it’s now, I think it’s always been important, but do you think in this wake of like the digital transformations that we’ve seen in recent years, that it’s more probable now or that there is more chances of succeeding?

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah. Yes, definitely. There is this new and evolving [00:25:00] infrastructure that makes this more possible than ever. And that’s the internet. So yeah. Yeah, definitely. There, there is correlation there. There is also this sort of shift, this like awareness of remote work as a trend you could say, like accelerated by the pandemic.

So people are thinking about this, so yeah, definitely. I don’t know exactly how this works. I just think it’s a great time to do it and we are doing it. Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: Congrats. Hey, let’s take it take it a second back to you because you also have a super interesting background with, we already mentioned music and we’ve also worked with a diverse range of startups and helped people define their mission and their values.

And so how have those experiences influenced your work and your approach at SafetyWing? [00:26:00]

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah, I should say that all of this is coincidental. So it’s not like a master plan. Master plan.

Elisa Tuijnder: I don’t, there’s no master. You wanna people say that, but actually , I never see that. No. It’s always your, all of your experiences lead you somewhere at some point.

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah. I had, when I was younger, I didn’t have any plan and now I have a plan . But all of these things happen coincidentally and I also recognize luck, like I’m not superstitious, but I’ve been so lucky. It’s just hard to deny. And I’ve worked really hard. . But the, but your question is interesting.

Yeah. So early very early in my career, I worked as a musician and as a music producer. It sounds amazing, but it was actually not that amazing. Like it was very rudimentary. But one thing that I learned during those days, particularly being a part of a band. So a group of people, a tiny society, [00:27:00] is that I discover what it means, particularly musicians, what it means to be mission driven because bands are almost exclusively mission driven.

Like you don’t have anything beyond your like dreams and where to aim. What do you want to become, what do you want to, how do you wanna change the world? Even if it’s like a small thing, even if it’s like creating amazing music. These people are so mission driven. Yeah. And you do it because you want to do it, so that’s cool.

Then when I worked as a designer I think the takeaway from that is this is how it feels to be managed by someone. This is how it feels to be micromanaged by someone. All of these experiences of management and how it feels upon the creator or the artist, or however the person who executes feels [00:28:00] and I hated like 95% of it. I was like, why don’t you let me do my work? So then I make, I made a transition to, to say executive positions in design, and I discovered how to lead people. What a leader does. And I was, look, don’t get me wrong, I was a lousy manager, but I was I’m almost, I can almost manage myself successfully and that’s all I can do, but leading people towards something.

Was like my only tool, this is the only thing I can do. So I discovered what is the difference there and, all empirical because I was failing at management, but I was succeeding at getting things done, so , something clicked there. Oh, okay. Cool. So this is more or less how you lead people.

And then I started my like experiment [00:29:00] working for startups as a brand person. It’s funny how brand and culture are the same thing, like one points to the outside that is brand and then the other one points inside, and that is culture. Then I the the takeaway there is like how mission-driven companies succeed are more likely to be successful.

How and, but maybe most importantly, how instrumental cultures are worthless or just have no value. Yeah. And then and then SafetyWing. It’s been amazing. And I guess the most important thing I’ve learned here is how you can actually make things differently. You can in life, you can do whatever you want.

And if enough people agree that it’s a good idea to have a, I would say, I will use the word workplace although it sounds like stiff and [00:30:00] corporate, the workplace can be a cool place, can be a place of joy and being joyful. You can be joyful and productive at the same time. These are not contradictory things.

In fact, they’re like, they feed from each other. So yeah, in a nutshell, that’s .

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, that’s, yeah. Opposite happiness at work. We’re all here for it. Yeah. Obviously the joy, we also believe that. All of the things that you just mentioned and that it’s a part of your life and how you structure it and how you manage it is different for people, but it has to be a joyful part of your life and not not a, definitely not a task.

Not a task. Hey before I get to the last question, I just wanna ask, where is SafetyWing? Where is it going? 2018, you started it with a product. Now there’s all these new products coming. There’s this dream of having a country on the internet, which would level the playing field for so many people. [00:31:00] Where do you see the future of SafetyWing?

Luis Adrian Salazar: Okay. I’ll take you through my mind. This makes sense to me. The future of SafetyWing is we keep our, we call them birds. So we have a bird thing going on, but we keep every bird, only slightly. Yeah. Everybody’s is happy, joyful, productive, motivated, heard, and that will create great products, products people love.

And so people will love our products and they will tell their friends so our customers will be happy. And I think that’s basically a combination of team and product and, we’ll release more product. We’ll, which will take us closer to creating our global social safety nets and we’ll get mass adoption for it.

That will make it more accessible, hopefully [00:32:00] to everyone. Not hopefully – to everyone. And then that completes our global social safety net, and then that makes our country and the internet official. It’s a simple roadmap. Just, yeah, pretty easy. Yeah. It’s actually very simple. We can do it.

Elisa Tuijnder: True.

Yeah. To be fair it’s not one with lots of veering off to the left and center, but it comes with a lot. And it’s a big, it’s a big goal, but I really hope you can achieve it. So on the podcast, we always want to end with tangible practices and, things our listeners can start implementing kind of tomorrow if they wish to do so. So what recommendations would you offer to employers, business leaders, just people out there who want to learn from both your experience and the growth of SafeWing as a whole?

Luis Adrian Salazar: Can you swear on this podcast?

Elisa Tuijnder: I don’t mind, but . . [00:33:00]

Luis Adrian Salazar: Okay. I’ll give it a try. You can bleep it. I would recommend to people, to leaders, to managers, to basically cut the bullshit when it comes to how you work with other people.

It seems like in many places you forget who you are when you go to work, even if it’s like remote companies. It doesn’t matter. People adopt these like positions of authority or speaking in weird ways. As per my last email this passive aggressive kind of thing, no one speaks like that in real life.

So that is something that I think is so valuable for our personal relationships, for our team dynamics. And that is in a nutshell, like one of our values is be authentic. And this is fascinating to me because it sounds kind of cliche. Okay, be authentic. It’s not be crazy or be trendy. No.

It’s [00:34:00] be it’s super. I. Yeah, be on the outside as you are on the inside. And this is fundamentally an anti-corruption mechanism because there are two factors here. One is if you’re authentic, you bring your own ideas. And in SafetyWing we hire people cuz who they are. We want you. And if you bring your own ideas, they have value, they’re valuable.

But people have ideas like truly good ideas, at some sort of ratio, like your ratio between good and bad idea or your ratio between I have an idea and I, I don’t have an idea for this particular issue. It’s like low and that’s okay. But most importantly, being authentic is, is important because when you’re not authentic, you tend to compound ideas that originate from other people that you don’t really believe in.

You’re just being, you’re just being [00:35:00] nice or playing politics or doing something that is corrupted by nature. And when many people do that, particularly your decision making goes to hell because you are not letting the best idea win. You’re just letting someone win. So another one of our values is let the best idea win.

Cuz it’s really important. . So yeah, that would be my advice, be human and be authentic. Yeah,

Elisa Tuijnder: it’s a really, it’s really good advice and it’s some people comes natural, but unfortunately a lot of people have, there’s very different cultures that’s been cultivated over the years, so we need to get back to authentic leadership and I love that there is a movement now for it as well.

Luis Adrian Salazar: Yeah. Can I ask you a question? Of course you can. What is happiness to you?

Elisa Tuijnder: Happiness to me is it’s not a, it’s a journey. It’s not something some point to achieve. It’s all the small things. On a regular basis, holding [00:36:00] onto them, practicing them. If we value the smaller things every day, we can train ourselves to be happier people.

So there’s a natural predisposition that everybody has to be either really happy or, you have your natural level of happiness, but you can change that a little bit by very much practicing the smaller things in life. And I think happiness is not just. It’s not just the good moments, it’s also the bad moments.

There’s Buddhist saying that, say the suffering. We need suffering to understand that there’s also happiness. . And I think that is, there is something very true in that. So we need to also take in the bad stuff sometimes to get to the happy stuff. It’s a package deal. Training it on a regular basis I think is is an important one.

And also, Not seeing it as a point in a distance, trying to create it now. And I think for me, one of the major things is their freedom. Freedom is one of my ultimate motivators, , hence the digital nomad thing, hence the [00:37:00] happiness at work and so that leads all into that. Does that satisfy you?

Yeah, I think that’s wonderful. Not that I need validation.

Luis Adrian Salazar: No. I just love the nature of the question. It seems to be so personal and open and there is no like right answer. So I just, I was curious.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. Yeah. I’m actually working on something, cuz we have almost 300 somewhat episodes now where people answer this.

People who have, some people without experience in happiness, some people who have dedicated their lives around happiness. So I’m gonna try and, yeah, write something around that and I’m analyzing the text. It’s cool at the moment. So it’s a long-term project cuz it’s something I do on the side.

But I really look forward to see what comes out of that. Whether there is some kind of, I don’t know, some text standard answers or if everything is just so personal that it’s completely different because I hear so many different things from so many different people,

Luis Adrian Salazar: so I love.

Elisa Tuijnder: Hey Adrian, thank you so much for coming on the [00:38:00] podcast.

I really enjoyed that talk. I really love your mission statement. I really love what you do, so please keep up the good work and thank you. Yeah, I hope our listeners whenever, if they, whether they are digital nomads, whether they are organizations looking into solutions around this. Yeah. Go to the SafetyWing website.

Do you wanna. Tell us what the SafetyWing website is, it’s pretty sim it’s pretty straightforward

Luis Adrian Salazar: I think. Yes. So there you can find our two main products. One is Nomad Insurance, which is a travel insurance, which is awesome. I use it like all the time when I’m traveling. And remote health, which is our more robust health insurance which I also use, and it’s amazing.

So yeah, that’s basically what you can find along our with our broader mission statements which as you, if you’re listening to this at this point of the conversation, are incredibly true and we live to, to fulfill this. Okay.

Elisa Tuijnder: Fantastic. Okay. Thank you so much again, [00:39:00] and yeah, hopefully see you again at some


Luis Adrian Salazar: All right. Thank you.

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