Embracing Healthy Conflict

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Stefan Stojković

While we all deal with conflict in our personal lives, we often go to great lengths to avoid it at work. But what if, in our efforts to avoid conflict in the workplace, we’re actually making things worse.

Today, we sit down with Stefan Stojković, a renowned coach, speaker, and agile leadership expert, to discuss the concept of functional conflict. Stefan also shares some practical strategies for leaders who want to use disagreement and debate to build stronger, happier, and more resilient workplaces. 

Key Points

  1. Functional Conflict: Highlighting how disagreement and debate, when properly managed, can strengthen team relationships and foster resilience.
  2. Safety and Trust: Stressing the need for a safe space where team members can voice differing opinions without fear, crucial for healthy workplace dynamics.
  3. Leadership’s Role: Encouraging leaders to create environments where constructive conflict is not just allowed but nurtured as a catalyst for better decision-making.
  4. Practical Management Tools: Introducing simple, effective tools like the RISA checklist and collaboration cards to assess and guide conflicts toward productive outcomes.

Learn more about Stefan and his work here: https://futurist.coach/

Connect with Stefan on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stefanstojkovic/

Transcripts and past episodes of ‘Happiness at Work’ can be found at: https://management30.com/

Hear from Stefan and some of the world’s leading experts on organizational change at the 2023 Forward Summit!

“Transformation Treks: Human-Centered Leadership Journeys” will be held on 2 November 2023.

Delve into the keys to success, invest in building human capabilities for lasting change, and uncover practical tips and real stories told by visionaries and trailblazers from all over the world. Be part of this extraordinary journey. 

Learn more and buy tickets now at https://fwd-summit.com/ 

LISTENER EXCLUSIVE: As a thank you to our listeners, we’re offering the ‘Happiness at Work’ audience 10% OFF this year’s Forward Summit. Just use code FOWARDPODCAST at checkout. 


*Please note that the transcript has been automatically generated and proofread for mistakes. But remains in spoken English, and some syntax and grammar mistakes might remain.

Elisa Tuijnder: [00:00:00] While we all deal with conflict in our personal lives, we often go to great lengths to avoid it at work. But what if, in our efforts to avoid conflict in the workplace, we’re actually making things worse? Today, we speak with a renowned coach, speaker and agile leadership expert about a concept called functional conflict and how companies can [00:00:30] use disagreement and debate to help build stronger relationships.

Happier and more resilient workplaces.

Before we dive in, you are listening to the Happiness at Work podcast by Management 3. 0, where we are getting serious about happiness.

I’m your host, Elisa Tuijnder, Happiness Enthusiast and [00:01:00] Management 3. 0 team member. In this podcast, we share insights from industry experts, influencers and thought leaders about what it takes to be happy, motivated and productive at work. So that loving your job becomes the norm and not the exception. We will be publishing every fortnight on Friday, so be sure to tune in and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.[00:01:30]

Our guest today is Stefan Stoikeviks. A leadership coach, speaker, agilist and production lead who has worked in education, software development, gaming, the automotive industry and much more. He’s also a Management 3point0 facilitator and he will be hosting an in depth session on our upcoming Forward Summit together with Sarika Karwanda on the 2nd of November.

Thank you so much for joining us, Stefan and 3point0. I butchered a little bit of your last name there, you’re [00:02:00] very welcome to say it again.

Stefan Stojković: Yeah. Thanks for having me. I’m excited to be here. Stefan Stojkovic, as you pronounce it, pretty good, I would say. All right. Perfect, but pretty good.

Elisa Tuijnder: Hey, I’m so excited to talk to you today about a fascinating concept, actually, a functional conflict, one that doesn’t get talked about enough, I feel.

Um, but before we jump in, let’s do what we always do on the podcast. We always start with the same question, and that is, what does happiness mean to you?

Stefan Stojković: Well, for me, [00:02:30] happiness is, let’s say, ability to use my full potential, being in the place I love, surrounded with the people I love. And while doing all of that, you have some internal peace on the way.

So, yeah, I think that’s in one sentence, if I need. I love it.

Elisa Tuijnder: Internal peace and we’re going to talk about conflict.

Stefan Stojković: Exactly.

Elisa Tuijnder: But sometimes you need to have conflict to get to internal peace, right? So I guess we’ll unpack that a little bit. So you’ve worked in many different industries as came to light, sort [00:03:00] of, from my little introduction there and in many different roles.

So I’m assuming you’ve seen your fair share of conflict there. And was it there that you got interested in conflict? Or can you, like, kind of enlighten us why, why that path?

Stefan Stojković: Yeah, absolutely. I witnessed a lot of conflicts in my career. And what’s interesting in how people exhibit various communication styles during this conflict, yeah, from passive to aggressive and something in the middle, like passive aggressive.

I think that [00:03:30] one is the most difficult one. And it can get really complex, yeah, and predictive and unpleasant. So I was like, really not engaged in the conflicts in the past, in the first part of my career. But when I was, it was really tough. So, because it usually happened when I lose my patience and then I become from passive to aggressive and that it’s not the best case, but I also seen few situations in my past career where [00:04:00] conflicts are healthy.

And like, having a debate, uh, and that actually moved some things on and unstuck the complete team so they can move forward. So, despite all of those challenges, I saw examples where conflicts are good. I saw a lot of examples of not good situations, so that got me thinking, right? Like, how to harness a conflict constructively, rather than just seeing it as a problem.

So that, that’s the main point, yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, so what we [00:04:30] see, and that is also human nature, I think, is that many companies, but also people, and managers, and leaders, they try to avoid conflict because it just doesn’t feel right, right? It is a bit uneasy, so, but you believe that after looking at all these things that that’s a mistake, right?

Letting it fester is wrong.

Stefan Stojković: Yeah, I mean, I don’t think avoiding conflict is always a mistake. Yeah, but I also believe that conflicts, when handled correctly, can lead to deeper understanding of the problems, [00:05:00] highlighting the risks, and in the end, ultimately can help making better decisions. And it’s important that people first feel safe to express their disagreements.

So depending if conflict is functional or dysfunctional, it’s You should prevent them or not. Yeah, that’s, that’s the point here.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. So you just mentioned their functional and dysfunctional, uh, conflicts. Could you give like a little synopsis of what each of them are and maybe also a little tangible [00:05:30] example in the workplace where we

Stefan Stojković: could see those?

Sure. So, uh, functional conflict, uh, it’s like a healthy one. Yeah. It’s goal oriented, driven by, let’s say, deferring visions, but with the aim of finding, uh, finding a solution. On the other hand, you have the dysfunctional conflicts. It’s more like an ego game with no clear goal. It often involves personal arguments rather than disagreements about some ideas or approaches or whatever, yeah?

So there is no [00:06:00] goal, just wish that people prove their own point. And instead of conflict of ideas and let’s say approaches, you have conflict of two persons. And that’s really bad, yeah? Also, if you’re trying to avoid conflicts, you will also Avoid the good ones, which I mentioned, the functional ones. And then in the interest of avoiding conflict, we can make very bad decisions since there’s no, I’d say this, a bit of disagreement and exchange of opinions.

And that is like not happened [00:06:30] before decision was made. So that’s, that’s a bad thing. And, uh, there is clear example in our real world. We are actually paying to the lawyers, to conflict instead of us in front of the judge, so judge can make a good decisions, right? But what is the lessons learned from that example, that actually functional configs can happen if there are some specific elements there.

So like, it must be with a purpose. It must be clean beginning. So we really [00:07:00] need to know when it starts. It needs to have, let’s say, manage this middle part. Like you need to have rules and consequences if rules are not respected. And at the end, you need to have a conclusion. That’s like a really, really good example how actually we use a conflict in the real world and actually some people make money off it.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. And I was just wondering when you were speaking, like one of the things that popped into my head is our [00:07:30] tendency to avoid conflict also kind of maybe translates into sometimes the loudest voices being heard the most. Say for example, you have a boardroom of people where Five of them are discussing the OKRs for next year, so the, the key results and rejectors from next year.

And about one of them, there’s a bit of disagreement whether we should really focus on that or whether we should let that lie. And because maybe sometimes the person, you know, that shouts the loudest or has the most outgoing voice or is [00:08:00] the most extroverted, um, Do you see that that happens, that they sort of come through a little bit more, and that then thinking about mitigating conflicts, or not necessarily conflicts, but disagreements, et cetera, would be a good way to, to keep that in mind as well?

Stefan Stojković: Yeah, the problem with the, that part is like, functional conflicts, like, are good debates with the results. Yeah, I would say. But again, debates are conflict because you have conflict of opinions. And if you have like [00:08:30] some strong personalities in your team and they’re, let’s say all the time making just their own point, then you will not have space for other people to contribute.

And other people will become quiet. They will like not be able to express their own feeling of some topic. And that’s really bad situation. So the actual approach should be to enable and have Psychological safety inside the team. So everyone are heard and there are a lot of techniques you can actually do that.

[00:09:00] You have like a liberating structure technique, which is really good to have that, that going and I think once you establish this psychological safety together with the trust, then also the quietest person in the room will start speaking and we’ll have like different opinions. And of course, sometimes different opinions can run to conflict.

And that’s also fine because if. At the end result that we have different ideas. It can even happen that those ideas are mixed at the end and he can even [00:09:30] better idea. So no one wins, uh, but everyone wins. Yeah. That’s, that’s the point at the end.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, exactly. Hey, you just mentioned liberating structures and I’ve heard it a few times, but I don’t think I’ve even fully really grasped what the essence of it is.

So maybe for me and for also our listeners, do you want to give us a little explanation of exactly what that entails?

Stefan Stojković: Sure. This is a kind of facilitation technique that actually, depending on the context and the topic you have, you can pick from the various, let’s say, exercises you [00:10:00] have. And actually the idea is to, as example, you have, uh, one, two, four, all exercise.

So one person is writing down his opinions on some ideas, for example, just by himself. Then he has changed that idea with one person. So this is the new part. Yeah. Once he has changed that idea, then they’re, let’s say grouped in the, in the group of four. And then that group of four should actually exchange, Summarize, maybe remove some ideas and then arguments start for [00:10:30] sure.

If you want to remove my idea, I will strongly fight for it. But that’s idea. Yeah, I’m fighting for idea, not because you insult me personally. And then they’re like making like top three, top five or whatever. And then they’re presenting their idea as a group in front of other group. So what’s the process here?

You start small by yourself, trying to think of it. When you. Want to exchange idea. It’s much easier to exchange with one person than immediately one, with one group. [00:11:00] Then exchange with one, then those two persons now have common ideas and common understanding and they want to share with others. So that’s, that’s the approach of one of exercises I actually have there.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So as far as I understood is indeed, it’s like a number of exercises to get loose from the, I want to do this, I want to do this and get to a more common consensus. That’s great. So, not all conflicts or not all potential conflicts are important enough to kind of engage in. [00:11:30] So, how can we sort of assess that something is worth the time investing in it, and to go through the whole thingamajig of a functional debate?

Stefan Stojković: What really helped me, and I think this is really good practice, it’s to do like little mental checkup before entering debate, yeah? So, you need to pause a bit, yeah? And going through so called RISA mental checklist is something which I really recommend and it’s actually [00:12:00] recommended by debate champion Bozeo.

That’s actually to assess whether a conflict is worth engaging in. You are using this, this checklist and what actually this RISA means, it stands for real, important, specific, aligned. So you need to determine if this conflict is really, let’s say real. Yeah. Yeah. Something about real thing. It is something about a fictional thing.

Yeah. Should I, should I [00:12:30] be part of it? Yeah. Then like, is it important? Yeah. So for me, is it important? Is it important for our goals or whatever? Yeah. Is it specific enough or it’s so, let’s say blurry that I actually can’t see it. You not know from where to start and what will actually be the outcome of it.

So sometimes you need to actually understand more deeper before involving yourself, but that is also connected with the share and common goal. Yeah. So if we have a common goal, [00:13:00] this is the last part of it. If we have common goal, then there is a sense. And there is a reason why we actually should enter, enter some debate.

And if some of this is not respected, you really need to think of, do I really want to be part of this debate? Maybe not.

Elisa Tuijnder: Is that something we all have to do individually? Or is that also the job of a facilitator? Or even a role within a team that somebody basically goes, Hey guys, let’s leave the tidbits aside.[00:13:30]

Stefan Stojković: Yeah, I strongly believe that this could be a personal thing, yeah, because conflicts can happen everywhere, not just in the working place. So if you have this like trigger reminds you, you need to go through this checklist and it’s like a few seconds pause. Uh, and you, if you have that habit, it will really help you.

But of course, if there is a facilitator, He can really use this technique. And if you have like team leaders, they should encourage [00:14:00] people and show them this technique and establish it, like. Yeah, this should be one of our work agreements. Whenever we have conflict, let’s go together through this checklist.

And if we are aligned on that, let’s continue.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, I think that would be a really interesting one to have that as, as part of your team agreement, like, okay, before things blow up, can we do this little checklist first, um, to make sure that we’re not losing time or losing energy or resources on something that is absolutely unnecessary.

Um, that kind of leads me [00:14:30] further into, And we just said, yes, it’s a personal accountability thing, but it’s also a part of a very good facilitation technique and it could also be part of a team agreement. But how should leaders approach brewing conflict? We said our feeling is sometimes avoided, but yeah, how do we steer it into the functional path?

How do we make it useful for the company, the organization, and also for the individuals?

Stefan Stojković: Yeah, I’m kind of strong advocate of self [00:15:00] organized and self managed teams. So managers should be there to establish a good and trustworthy environment where functional conflict can actually happen. So that is the important point.

Agreements on how conflicts are handled and agreement to disagree are crucial. So we should really have in our agreements, let’s disagree sometime. That is important. Why? Because we can make quickly good decisions. You know, last time what happened when we, let’s say, push this conflict [00:15:30] and we like waited too many to make some decisions because of that.

So this will boost creativity, innovation, engagement, and on other side. Manager should also establish, I already mentioned, this kind of triggering system for the team. So team members can actually recognize when conflicts are becoming dysfunctional. And when that happens, to manage them properly. So yeah, a leader can intervene, but the best will be to establish [00:16:00] environment when that will naturally happen.

Yeah. Not just with intervention of the leader. And there are a lot of ideas how this can be done, but I think we need a special, special podcast just for that. Yeah. We

Elisa Tuijnder: need a whole workshop for that.

Stefan Stojković: Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: What if, you know, sometimes. Leaders, ideally, they know exactly what’s going on at all times, but sometimes something’s been festering and you just don’t know what, especially potentially with a remote team or whatever.

And all of a sudden there’s this massive dysfunctional conflict. You’ve put a [00:16:30] perfect culture in the way and everything, but it’s still, it’s there. What happens then? How does the leader manage that? Steps in or not?

Stefan Stojković: If conflict has turned dysfunctional, as you said, the goal should be to transform it into functional as soon as possible.

Yeah. Absolutely. So shifting the focus from personal things and personal disagreements about our, let’s say, way of working, thinking, mindset. If we start talking about that, I do not like how you behave and things [00:17:00] like that. That’s, that’s really bad. So shift from personal things to the, let’s say, conflict of ideas as example.

Yeah. And that can be highly, highly beneficial. It’s all about redirecting that conversation towards actually problem solving. Do not speak about what happened, but let’s see what we can do to improve it. We should also try to escape from these ego games and personal arguments and introduce this, as I said, conflict of ideas.

So instead of [00:17:30] saying, As example, I do not like your approach with that task. Yeah, you can say, I do not resonate with that idea. I believe that it can be more valuable for our customers if we do that and that. Yeah. So that can lead to some good discussion and even conflict, but in a good way. I do not discuss about you personally, but about your idea.

And then at the end, as we said, uh, these two ideas can transform in one even better. So that’s a really good point. [00:18:00] When, when I speak with my people and I heard this from one really good coach, um, When there is one people, there is one idea. Where there is two people, there are two ideas,

Elisa Tuijnder: yeah?

Stefan Stojković: Mine, yours, and ours together.

So there is actually three ideas at the end.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that. It sounds, you know, just the reframing can be so powerful, right? It’s just reframing of sentences, ideas. And not making them personal attacks can be incredibly powerful. Yeah, to be

Stefan Stojković: honest, you need to have a lot of skills to do that.

So this [00:18:30] is not something that will happen overnight. Oh, yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: No, no, no, no. Definitely not. And the people who do it the best, you almost don’t realize that they’re doing it. Right. Yeah. They’re so subtle, so subtle in it.

Stefan Stojković: Go with the flow. Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: Hey there, dear listeners. I mentioned it briefly in the intro of this podcast. So if you’re looking for an experience that will truly Uplift [00:19:00] and redefine the way you see organizational change, then I have the perfect event for you. Coming up on the 2nd of November, get ready for the Forward Summit on Transformation Tracks.

Here, you’ll delve deep into the heart of Management 3point0, listen to real life stories that prove the transformative power of this approach. Listen closely, because these aren’t just any tales, these are stories of success. [00:19:30] of growth, of lasting change from visionaries and trailblazers from across the globe.

Stefan has been sharing a sneak peek of what you can expect at this summit. But there are many more talks, practice sessions and exciting moments that await you there. And because we love our podcast family so much, here’s a special treat for you all. Secure your ticket to the Forward Summit now and use the Code of Forward podcast that is the [00:20:00] Code Forward podcast to get an exclusive 10% discount just for our listeners.

So go to fwd summit.com to secure your ticket. Remember, the summit is on the 2nd of November. Dive in, evolve, and be the change you wish to see. I’ll see you there.[00:20:30]

Hey, I wondered if you had any like, you know, as we’ve talked about these functional conflicts and dysfunctional turning them back into functional. I wondered whether you could give us an example, you obviously don’t have to give any names, of a conflict that was going in the wrong direction and then was turned around and actually kind of had a great impact on maybe workers culture or employee happiness or even productivity afterwards.

Something to tie it all together in a more. Yeah. In a more tangible way.

Stefan Stojković: I am [00:21:00] really in favor of work agreements, like team agreements and everything else. So we actually had this practice at the beginning of some project and we set up the, the, the work agreements, uh, for the team. And then one of the person didn’t like work agreements, but he didn’t say it when work agreements was built.

And then we shared a lot, a lot of, let’s say. Decline from his side, like feeling that he’s not happy, but he was not able to speak. He didn’t want to speak of it. [00:21:30] So we had a lot of, like, we agreed that we will do morning check ins. He will be late. He will not come and so on. And then we starting to try to understand why.

And in one moment. Uh, we understand that this time for him was bad because he was like, uh, driving his kids to the, to the kindergarten. And immediately after that, he needs to be in, in, in job or, or dialing, uh, while he’s in the car. So that was not, not great, great [00:22:00] idea for him. And actually, uh, we had really big conflict like, uh, have you done this?

We go through our, our board and he said, I don’t know what you’re talking about. I’m in car. I cannot see the board. Yeah. Yeah. Not great. But he didn’t

Elisa Tuijnder: communicate it, right?

Stefan Stojković: But, but, but one of the facilitators said, But why you’re not able, why you’re not here? You can see the board if you’re here. Yeah. And then he was like, yeah, I’m not there because, uh, you didn’t respect what I said.

[00:22:30] And he was like, what you said, nevermind, you know, and in the end that can turn, turn, turn. And what was the intervention? First. The first thing, uh, was like, say, let’s do a feedback session of our working agreement. So let’s adopt working agreements based on the new knowledge we now have about how we work, how we, we are behaving and so on.

And then, week, the work agreement. And then we agreed, okay, let’s every month have a discussion about work agreements we already [00:23:00] agreed for. And if there is a need to change them, we will change them. That’s totally fine. Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. That’s one of the things I often see, and also, you know, it’s never due to ill will or something like that.

That work agreements are often set up at first, and they’re great, and everybody’s like, woohoo! And then six months later, people forgot what’s actually in the work agreement, and they haven’t been updated. Have you got a tip to kind of keep them alive? Is that really putting a time every quarter or every month [00:23:30] to just go, hey, are we still okay with this work agreement?

Or how do you, how do you practice that?

Stefan Stojković: Yeah, context change, theme change, everything change. So you need to adapt based on that. Yeah, absolutely.

Elisa Tuijnder: Um, hey, so as I mentioned in the introduction, uh, you and your colleague Sarika, also my colleague Sarika, are doing a 90 minute practice session, or mini workshop, let’s call it like that, at the upcoming Forward Summit titled Navigating Change and Conflict, the Power of NicoNico and the Change Management Game [00:24:00] from Management 3point0.

So I wanted to ask you, what can people expect if they join you? What’s it going to be about? Like, what’s the power of it?

Stefan Stojković: So we will speak about, let’s say, first thing, Nico Nico Calendar as a really simple example of, let’s say, daily check ins, which can prevent, let’s say, escalation of conflicts and, uh, actually the dysfunctional conflicts because personal reasons actually happen, yeah?

Because someone is frustrated or whatever, yeah? So [00:24:30] we will introduce that and we will introduce the, the game, uh, What will be situation if we use Nico Nico Calendar and what’s the situation if it’s not used? So we will start with not used and used and then you will see the difference and you will see that Really some conflicts and happiness of the people is actually much better when when you’re actually using it.

On the other side Sarika will introduce the change management game as a Really important alignment thing with the complete team with the change that needs to happen because [00:25:00] we will look into different parts of Of one change and we will, let’s say, not just talk about delivery of that change, but we need to talk also about how people feel, yeah, what is the environment, what is changing there.

So we will, would like to introduce the context of if you start your change properly, if you have good foundations and start with the insights from the people who will be later on delivering that change or be impacted with that change, you will prevent a lot of conflicts. [00:25:30] dysfunctional actually conflicts potentially later on.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s going to be a really interesting session and I like that it’s going to be a little bit hands on as well, uh, to really showcase what that’s all about. So change management and change is a part of a bigger structure. And so you also focus quite a bit on agile leadership and continuous improvement.

So. And you actually offer your own trademark approach, which is called the SILAN approach or S I L A N. I’m not sure whether you use [00:26:00] acronym or still are SILAN, perfect, hey, for leaders. Do you want to walk us through what that, what that entails as well?

Stefan Stojković: Yeah, actually that approach is something I adopted after more than a decade now of working with different teams, frameworks, methodologies, and different management levels.

And I kind of packed all of that in, in one approach, which is called Ceylan. It’s actually means powerful in my language. So that’s why it’s called Ceylan, [00:26:30] but it’s also, yeah, like elements of, yeah, I really like the Ceylan, even, even how it’s, it’s pronounced in English. It comes with a simple, this is the first part.

So I’m saying there, uh, let’s say strive to simplify wherever possible and use solutions because they are good. and give good outcomes and not because they are trendy, because we’re witnessing now a situation that a lot of things are happening just because of a trend, not because of necessity of it.

Yeah. [00:27:00] Second one is intelligent. So this is part is like use their minds, talents, energy, and everything else on the things which are valuable and don’t waste them on the things which are not in alignment with your personal or team goals or whatever. Per principles, then we have lazy. This is more thinking lazy, not acting lazy.

So thinking like a lazy person, what lazy person will do in that case, in this situation. So try to be involved where and where it’s really needed. [00:27:30] If you think like a lazy person, you will try to automate whenever possible. Yeah. And when that makes sense. Yeah. Then we have agile, be adaptive, but plan, be fast, but ask.

That rhymes as well. Ask for feedback. I mean, and, uh, nurturing is really part of everything, what I’m doing. So, and we spoke about this a bit also today. So protect, care. provide opportunities for people to share their thoughts and [00:28:00] concerns in safe and supportive environments. I think this is really, really crucial.

This is like dots at the end. Uh, uh, before it was without an, and I was always feeling something is missing. And then I put this in and it was like, let’s say that’s, that’s it.

Elisa Tuijnder: Bum. That’s it. It was the missing puzzle piece there. Amazing. Thanks for explaining that. Hey Stefan, so here on the podcast, we’re big fans of tangible practices.

Things our listeners can start implementing tomorrow. [00:28:30] And we’ve covered a few strategies, like, so we’ve talked about your reset checklist. We’ve talked about, uh, your still on approach, um, and, and from dysfunctional to functional. But is there anything that you can leave our listeners with around change, around conflicts, that they could start practicing, whether on an individual level or on an organizational level?

Like a little tidbit that doesn’t require a lot of buy in or anything like that. Yeah, yeah,

Stefan Stojković: yeah. I mean, I really like this [00:29:00] Iconico calendar I mentioned, but I also like collaboration cards. So this call up cards, it’s like something really good because sometimes people are writing emails to the person which are not reading the email.

So at the end, conflict happens why you didn’t read my email. But if we have in advance information that this person really likes the Slack or Discord or whatever chat it is. Instead of email and we immediately prevent the conflict in the beginning. So I think this is something really simple to implement.

Every person in the [00:29:30] team just writes how he would like to communicate, availability of, uh, of hours, what he likes and so on and so on. And then we have good situation that everyone are aligned. And once I need to communicate something with someone, I know when to send it through which channel and what should be actually my, my approach.

So that’s really cool.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, that you don’t have to do this morning stand up at the nursery or on your phone. Exactly. And that is really so, it’s such a simple tool. It could be [00:30:00] part of your team agreement as well. I myself, I’m not a morning person. Don’t ask me to read something on Slack at 8am, uh, but I will read it at 10pm as well.

So you know, um, it’s just good to know that from team, especially teams change regularly, right? It’s a easy thing to do, which can have a lot of impact. All right, Stefan, thank you so much for that. Um, if our listeners would like to get in contact with you, just want to follow you somewhere and see what you’re up to, where is the best place to go?[00:30:30]

Stefan Stojković: So, link it in, you can easily find me, Stefan Stojkovic will probably post some link. I will link it in the show notes,

Elisa Tuijnder: yeah. Futurist.

Stefan Stojković: coach, so that’s also the place. I will usually announce upcoming events, webinars and everything on my events page on my website. And I’m also in Management 3point0 community, so you can find me there as well if you join in the next slot, because for now it’s closed.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. And if they want to see [00:31:00] you at work, then there’s obviously also the forwards I made on the 2nd of November. Exactly. And then

Stefan Stojković: after that, Agile Scrum Gathering in, in Serbia, in Belgrade. So you can also join there. I’ll be speaker as well there. And I have a couple of events I cannot remember, uh, what are the dates exactly?

Some Agile leadership comp things

Elisa Tuijnder: everywhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Some Pandatia workshop, maybe. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

Stefan Stojković: yeah. Yeah. 20 to 23rd is, is Agile Team Leadership Workshop. So that’s, that’s, [00:31:30] that’s the, the one we are having online. So everyone can join.

Elisa Tuijnder: The whole world can join. That’s always really

Stefan Stojković: cool. Yeah.


Elisa Tuijnder: All right. Awesome. Thank you, Stefan. So great to talk to you today. Uh, uh, we’re recording this on a Friday, so you’re making my Friday afternoon. It’s always nice. And yeah. I will see you and speak to you soon. Thank you very much.

Stefan Stojković: Thank you for having me. It was a great conversation.[00:32:00]

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