Many of us think of emotional intelligence as a personality trait, something that can be helpful in the workplace but isn’t necessarily vital.

But what if it can transform a company? Today, we speak with renowned expert and author Harvey Deutschendorf about the power and potential of emotional intelligence and discuss some strategies for boosting productivity, improving work-life balance, and building stronger, happier organizations.

Key Points

• Deep Dive into Emotional Intelligence (EQ): An insightful conversation with Harvey Deutschendorf, an internationally recognized EQ expert, exploring the vast potential of emotional intelligence in reshaping organizational culture, boosting productivity, and enhancing employee well-being.
• Strategies for Implementing EQ in the Workplace: Harvey shares practical strategies and examples for leveraging emotional intelligence to create stronger, more cohesive teams, improve work-life balance, and foster a positive work environment.
• The Power of Self-Awareness and Vulnerability in Leadership: Discover the critical role of self-awareness and the strength of vulnerability in effective leadership, as discussed by Harvey. Learn how these elements of EQ can lead to more authentic and impactful leadership practices.
• Practical Tips for Personal and Professional Growth: Gain actionable advice on developing your emotional intelligence, including the importance of listening, setting boundaries, and the continuous journey of self-discovery and personal development for achieving happiness at work.

Learn more about Harvey, take a free quiz, and find his book “Emotional Intellegence Game Changers” on his website. 

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Happiness means different things to each of us. After doing extensive research, Management 3.0 founder Jurgen Appelo discovered a common thread: Happiness is something we create. It is not something to achieve. It is a path you choose, not a destination to arrive at.

So many of us spend our lives in pursuit of happiness. Instead of searching for it, we need to find ways to live it, embrace it, and implement it into our daily lives. That’s why we created the 12 Steps to Happiness at Management 3.0.

You can find more information and even download a free poster of the 12 steps here. 

Transcript

*Please note that the transcript has been automatically generated and proofread for mistakes. But remains in spoken English, and some syntax and grammar mistakes might remain.

Elisa Tuijnder: [00:00:00] Many of us think of emotional intelligence as a personality trait. Something that can be helpful in the workplace, but isn’t necessarily vital. But what if it can be used to transform a company? Today, we speak with a renowned expert and author about the power and potential of emotional intelligence and some strategies for using it to boost productivity, [00:00:30] improve work life balance, and build stronger, happier organizations.

Before we dive in, you are listening to the Happiness at Work podcast by Management 3point0, where we are getting serious about happiness.

I’m your host, Elisa Tuijnder, Happiness Enthusiast and Management 3point0 team member. In [00:01:00] this podcast, we share insights from industry experts, influencers and thought leaders about what it takes to be happy, motivated and productive at work. So that loving your job becomes the norm and not the exception.

We will be publishing every fortnight on Friday, so be sure to tune in and subscribe. wherever you get your podcasts.[00:01:30]

Hello, and welcome to Happiness at Work. Our guest today is Harvey Deutschendorf, an emotional intelligence expert, speaker, and internationally published author. His new book is titled Emotional Intelligence Game Changers 101 Simple Ways to Win at Work and Life. So thank you so much today for joining us, Harvey.

I’m looking

Harvey Deutschendorf: forward to it.

Elisa Tuijnder: Great. So yeah, I’m also very excited to chat to you today, but before we get started on the more precise questions here on the podcast, we always start with the same [00:02:00] question, and that is, what does happiness mean to you?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Oh, good question. Yes. For me, happiness is having a worthwhile goal to, you know, to strive towards having, uh, close connections with, with people that I have intimate relationships with, and I mean intimate, uh, in terms of, you know, people that you can share your greatest fears as well as your greatest joys, you know.

Can be yourself around you, can be authentic, and [00:02:30] um, focusing on the positive. It doesn’t mean ignoring the negative around you that’s going on. There’s so much of it now, but, but being mainly a positive focus, seeing, seeing a brighter future, and you know, mainly viewing the world as, as being friendly. You know, it’s only placing the good in it and just feeling, feeling joy, feeling all the emotions.

But, but mainly being in a positive state, just the feeling that things are going to go well, are going to be better and [00:03:00] just being able to enjoy the moment, being able to enjoy life.

Elisa Tuijnder: Amazing. Yeah. I hope you have that. As I wish this to all of our listeners as well. Hey, so we’re here to talk about emotional intelligence or, you know, you see the abbreviation a lot of EQ.

Uh, it’s one of those things that everybody sort of has heard of or is aware of, but shall we start with kind of defining it? What, how do you define EQ and yeah,

Harvey Deutschendorf: well, I think there’s a emotion [00:03:30] intelligence is the, it’s our ability to, uh, recognize and differentiate our emotions, manage them in ourselves, as well as the.

Emotions of others around us. in our environment. That’s sort of the standard definition. Uh, we can manage our own emotions, um, quite well. I’m not sure we can manage others quite as well, but I do know, uh, I do, I do know we can influence others and we can influence them to, to a great degree. All [00:04:00] you have to do is walk into a, you know, your supermarket store and just frown at everybody.

And then when you walk in there and smile at people, smile, you’ll notice. You’ll notice a difference in how they react to you. You know, you smile at people, they’ll smile back. So you can influence people’s emotions. We know that. So, yeah, the ability to do that and to manage our own, uh, so they work for us rather than against us, because they can be our best friends and they can be our worst enemies.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, [00:04:30] absolutely. I was on a place on Friday evening, socially, not for work. And the vibe, as soon as I walked in, I could feel like the vibe was not, you know, it was a nice, right? Like, and I was like, constantly thinking, how do we manage, like, how do we manage this in spaces? And even like, you know, the small things like if, if, if everyone’s friendly from the start, like, you know, you can set off this chain reaction, right?

Harvey Deutschendorf: For sure. For sure. Yes.

Elisa Tuijnder: And you know, EQ, like people always, again, there’s, there’s some [00:05:00] debate, like some people are more naturally gifted at it, but it isn’t just something that we’re born with, right? It’s something we can develop and train on, if I’m correct.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Oh, absolutely. That’s why I’m so excited about it, because it is something that’s really in our control.

And, of course, if our parents had high emotional intelligence, and the people that, you know, we were surrounded with influenced us growing up, likely ours would be higher as well. But the problem, the thing is that regardless of what we were raised [00:05:30] with or were born with, we can develop it. And we can develop it.

You know, it’s, it’s, it’s in our control and, you know, I’m living, breathing example, it’s, you know, you can develop your emotional intelligence and you can develop it too. There’s, there’s no limit as to, as, as to how much you can develop it.

Elisa Tuijnder: Amazing. You just mentioned, um, that you are so excited about it.

Can I, do you want to add? I always like to dig a little deeper, uh, with people I talk to. I’m like, why, why did you get interested in this? How did you stumble [00:06:00] in this field of emotional intelligence? And you don’t have to give the whole life story, but, but what got you so interested? What was the spark?

Harvey Deutschendorf: I could talk about this for the whole, for the rest of the podcast.

Yeah, but I just have to cut it out. First of all, my situation, my parents were refugees after the Second World War. They came over to Canada with my, my brother was only two, I was born here. But, uh, they lost everything in the war. They had absolutely nothing. They had to borrow money for [00:06:30] passage from the church.

Desperately poor growing up the first 12 years of our life. We lived in a little two room shack without running water, electricity or anything. I remember my mother telling us that, you know, there’s when we got older, there was some days she only had a and orange to feed my brother and I. Luckily, I don’t remember this.

I don’t remember that. Just the people that we lived around were poor, too. A lot of poor people. We were probably poor, but I wasn’t aware of it. But anyways, that [00:07:00] wasn’t the worst part of it. The worst part of it, you know, left most of the family behind. They resettled in Europe. So it was very, very isolated as a family and, uh, my father was very angry, became very, and it got worse and worse and worse, uh, you know, the family was, we always had to, you know, live in fear and, uh, it became very, very, very dysfunctional.

Um, and, um, I wanted out of the situation. I always thought there’s a bigger world out there. I’m, so I was the first one to actually go to [00:07:30] university. And I got a degree, and I was working, and I was working as a professional, and I went far beyond what, you know, anybody in my family before that had done, and I should have been happy, uh, and, but I wasn’t.

I wasn’t, you know, things weren’t working as well. I didn’t actually have the career that I really wanted. I didn’t have the friends, you know, that, that I really wanted stuff. I, my life wasn’t going well. I tried reading self help books, nothing seemed to talk to me, and then one day I heard about this thing, this book by.

It’s called Daniel [00:08:00] Goleman, Emotional Intelligence, Why It Matters More Than the Cube. It’s interesting. I picked it up, and I think on page 4 it said, you know, all of your intellect can come to naught when your emotions hold sway. And that was it. That was it. I had an aha moment. This is, okay, here’s the problem.

Yeah, you know, it’s not smart enough intellectually. The problem is my emotions. I’m not smart with my emotions. My emotions are out of whack. I’m carrying a lot of baggage, you know, from from my [00:08:30] upbringing and stuff. That’s really not serving me well at all. And so I set about changing that. I joined the men’s organization called the Mankind Project here.

And it’s now spread to a lot of places in the world and I started working on my stuff. It’s where men share, you know, their, their emotions, right? We’ll talk about things that are real. So, uh, it’s a safe place. And then I thought, well, you know, this is powerful. The emotional, this is powerful stuff, but the books that are written are all like, they’re sort of academic or there’s totally.

Focus towards a, you know, [00:09:00] a business, um, crowd. And I thought, well, somebody’s got to write something that breaks this down in a way that people can understand and use this. More

Elisa Tuijnder: accessible.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Yeah, more accessible. People need to be able to use this. I thought, well, somebody has to do this, and I said, well, I’m somebody, and I

Elisa Tuijnder: can do it.

I

Harvey Deutschendorf: actually published a book before that, uh, on men’s issues. It was, but, uh, you know, it was sort of around emotional intelligence, but I hadn’t even heard the term. And [00:09:30] so I set about writing this book, and it turned out to be my first book, The Other Kind of Smart, Simple Ways to Boost Your Emotional Intelligence for Greater Benefit.

Yeah. And so, yeah, yeah. And it sort of took over my life. I started studying, taking certification courses and learning everything I could about it, but I started speaking about it and it just sort of took over my life. It became sort of my, my passion, my mission. So, uh, here I am today.

Elisa Tuijnder: Amazing. Amazing. And it’s also so nice to [00:10:00] hear.

You know, you took what it was to start off a sadder narrative or a reality, and you kind of turned that around into, you know, doing something for others. And I always love these stories to see that and Living in Berlin, you know, the war generation is, uh, they, they really had a hard time talking about their lived experiences, so I’m very happy that, you know, this is more approachable and everyone’s emotions are more validated.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Emotions are very important. [00:10:30]

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. Really so. Um, I was just wondering, cause so, you know, what you, what you see a lot in business is that something becomes a buzzword and like all of these kinds of I feel like, again, with emotional intelligence, at some point, it had a little of a momentum a few years ago, and then it goes, it goes a little bit more flat.

And now it feels like there’s, it’s back up again, like lots more people are talking about emotional intelligence. Do you know why these trends are linked to? Is it because of what’s going on in the world? Is there a reaction to it? You know, why is it so important in the [00:11:00] workplace to have emotional intelligence?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Well, well, it’s important for many different reasons. First of all, it’s our emotions that we We make connections. We’re hardwired for connections with others. And it’s, it’s through, um, you know, developing empathy and things like that, and, and that we’re able to form, form connections to, to get along with each other, basically, it’s the skill that we need to develop and we avoid conflict, it’s not only important for ourselves, but it’s important for.

Any [00:11:30] organization to have, uh, people that are highly emotional intelligence, especially their leadership, because the more focused we are on conflict and then it disrupts the workplace, it takes energy away from things that we have to do every day. If we’re focused on our work and we feel that respected, appreciated, we’re going to do more.

And that’s been shown, uh, absolutely that, uh, companies, organizations will be more successful, but we’ll retain people People will stay longer, they’ll put more effort in, [00:12:00] because it’s been shown that if we’re appreciated, we’ll put in more effort than if we’re not. So, now, I think what’s happening is this, you know, emotional intelligence has really come back big time.

There’s a couple of reasons, but what COVID did, disrupted the workplace. We’re using something out there called the Great Resignation, you know. Quiet quitting. People aren’t feeling motivated at work. There’s all kinds of, we’re running into problems, mental health issues. And, and, you know, now we’re talking about artificial intelligence, but we’re not dealing with the, [00:12:30] the underlying issues at all.

It’s, it’s, it’s our ability to connect with one another and that’s around our emotions. And it’s been shown also, we make decisions based on our emotions. People think they make decisions based on their, their intellect. But it’s been shown actually in research. Our decisions are based on our emotions and then we use our intellect to justify those, those decisions.

But they’re made long to way to weigh them

Elisa Tuijnder: up. Yeah, ,

Harvey Deutschendorf: we we’re, we, we make those [00:13:00] decisions before we even seriously think through the decision itself. We made ’em on an emotional level and then, you know, we’re catching up trying to justify what we made those decisions. So being able to manage our emotions and control and learn to use our emotions.

The most important skill that, you know, that we can have, and in 2020, the World Economic Forum decided that emotional intelligence was one of the top 10 skills in the workplace, and I think it’s probably crept up now, [00:13:30] become even much higher. And with artificial intelligence, we even need more emotional intelligence because we’re becoming less and less connected with each other as people.

And that’s, that’s creating lots of loneliness, you know, disconnection. It results in lots of mental health issues because we’re losing, we’re losing connection with each other as people.

Elisa Tuijnder: No matter what it is, it’s always, I said, the connections are the basis of everything, right? So.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Yes, they are.

Elisa Tuijnder: You already said it a little bit earlier, like you were, you were like, [00:14:00] a person should write that book with, you know, that is more accessible, that is more hands-on, and you took that challenge to heart.

And, um, now your latest book is out and it offers a hundred tips, like bang on , hundred tips, uh, and, and strategies for leveraging EQ at, at work or emotional intelligence at work and and in life. So I’d love to sit here with you and go, go through all of them, but, uh, in the interest of time, we’ll just kind of le uh, pick some out.

So. Maybe, you know, one that I always think is important, especially because we’re happiness at work, [00:14:30] like how can emotional intelligence improve our work life balance?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Well, I think the main thing to know about work life balance is being able to find work life balance that works for us. We have to know who we are.

We have to be aware of who we are. You know, otherwise, if we don’t aware of what’s important to us, who we are, we’re going to drift through life. We’ll end up living someone else’s life, basically, if we don’t know. So [00:15:00] we need to figure that out. We need to understand who we are, what makes us happy, uh, what we’re passionate about.

Then we have to start building a life around what works for us, definitely deciding what we want out of life. And then, every so often, I used to do that once a year, is, is, um, Think about what’s working and what isn’t working. Set aside time, that’s just for that purpose. You used to go to the mountains, which are close to where I live, once a year, [00:15:30] and just sit down for a couple of days.

Nothing else on the agenda. Talk about, okay, what’s working? Because What works for us yesterday might not work for us today because we change as people, circumstances change, so we have to continue to readjust, but it’s always deliberate. It’s always something that we think about. It’s not something that we just forget about and just, just go along, you know, flow along.

So, um, make lists, write it down, put it down what’s important to you. And then we set aside time for, for what’s important. That’s [00:16:00] family, friends, important interest to us. We set time aside. We don’t just, oh, and when we have some time, well, because we’ll end up drifting. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll end up getting away from it.

We have to be very deliberate about what we want because, uh, there are a lot of people out there that are very, very happy to tell us what we want in life and what we should do and what we shouldn’t. If we’re not sure of what we want, there’s a lot of, there’s no shortage of people who will want to tell us.

And then we set parameters around what we consider [00:16:30] success. Now it may be that we understand if we’re starting a business, we’re going to have to spend a lot of time. to get the business going more than we, you know, we really want to. But we have a goal, an end, we have a time limit, we have, you know, how this is going to get us to where we want to do.

We’re just not floating along, you know, waiting, oh, you know, someday, it’s not someday. We have definite parameters around what that’s going to look like and where we want to be. And the other thing is turn off distractions, you know, [00:17:00] uh, so many, so many shiny objects out there. And there’s more and more and more and more.

It’s going to be, you know, I get every day in my, my inbox, people want to sell me a course and it’s going to help me do whatever it is that they think I need. You’ve got to have this. You’ve got to do this and stuff. If we don’t know ourselves, we’re going to be carried down into the rabbit hole. We’ll be sucked into all these distractions, all these shiny objects.

So, the most [00:17:30] important work, I think, is to know ourselves. Make a plan and stick with that. You know, make the adjustments as you go along, but know that. Know what we really want. Know ourselves. That’s so important.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, and bringing awareness to it, right? Like actually sitting down and he said, yeah. What was your, you know, you made a, you wrote down a hundred tips.

What was your favorite tip in the book? I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know which one you think, I know it’s probably hard because you wrote all of them, but what was the one that you just, [00:18:00] that just sprung to mind in your head when I said that?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Yeah. I think we’re, you know, to me, knowing yourself, uh, is hugely important.

The essence,

Elisa Tuijnder: the basis.

Harvey Deutschendorf: The essence. And, and also that it’s. I talk a lot about getting out of our comfort zone because to, to, to know ourselves, to get to where we want in life, we have to get out of our comfort zone. That’s when we grow. My favorite saying, I came up with this actually, my quote is, our comfort zone will keep us safe, but it’ll also keep us [00:18:30] small.

It’ll keep us from growing. It’ll keep us stuck. It will, you know, so to grow, we need to be open. pushing our comfort zone. And that’s something I’ve learned. And of course, coming from where I did to where I am, I’ve had to do a lot of pushing against the walls of my comfort zone. I had to go to places that I’d never been before.

I, you know, uh, test the limits. And, and, and you learn to do that by doing. And uh, so emotional intelligence is a, [00:19:00] it’s not a intellectual exercise. It’s an experiential exercise.

Elisa Tuijnder: What leads to a happy life? What are the various ways to be happy? Happiness means different things to each of us. Yet after doing extensive research, Management 3point0 founder Juergen Appelow discovered the common thread. Happiness is something we [00:19:30] create. It is not something to achieve. It is a path you choose.

Not a destination to arrive at. So many of us spend our times in pursuit of happiness. Yet instead of searching for it, we need to find ways to live it, embrace it, and implement it into our daily lives. We created the 12 Steps to Happiness at Management 3point0. You can find more information and even download a free poster of the 12 Steps [00:20:00] at management3o.

com

Is there another practical tip or another, like, really tangible example or tangible practice, uh, that you want to share with us that you thought, oh, this is actually also a really good one. This one is, uh, will set you on your path.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Well, I, I think what, what, what happens is, uh, people get caught up in procrastination.

And have these plans, but just can’t get going, you know, and they’re [00:20:30] stuck. So, um, first of all, you need something that you’re, you’re, you’re passionate about. If you’re making changes, there’s two things that can get people moving towards passion. If you’re feeling really passionate about something, you know, you’ll get the motivation to move towards it.

The other thing is pain, getting away from pain, which I know both, you know, will motivate, you know, but, um, you need to have a larger goal. that you’re passionate about. Something to work towards that’s really worthwhile. Uh, you [00:21:00] know, that gives meaning for life. And then the other thing is, it’s all about momentum.

People, the hardest thing always is to get started. The thing is, we don’t have to start at the beginning. Like, it’s linear. Like, uh, uh, somebody told me about when you’re, when you’re writing a book, people are stuck. I don’t know how am I going to start and stuff. You don’t start at the beginning. You can start anywhere.

Start at the easiest part. Something that comes to you easy. Start there and then work around it, you know. The point is to start, and [00:21:30] the reason we need to start is because it gives us momentum. The most energy it takes is to get started. You know, it’s just like a vehicle. It takes more energy to get moving.

And you find that once you start, you want to keep going and the other thing is to, we need to break things down into small, small bite sized chunks. So instead of saying, well, I’m going to work today for five hours on something, it’s daunting. It’s you know, it’s not very appealing.[00:22:00]

Well, I’m just going to do it for five minutes. Okay. That’s it. So, so you start. Okay. You’re doing it for five minutes. Suddenly. You know, you’re getting some momentum. It feels good. Well, I might as well keep going. You know, there’s a book that I read called, I think, Atomic Habits. Yes. Why, you know, New Year’s resolutions and things like that.

People said, you know, they fail and then they feel, feel disappointed in themselves and stuff. It’s just, [00:22:30] okay, instead of thinking, well, planning, I’m going to do 50 push ups. I’m going to do 50 push ups. Tell yourself, I’m gonna do three. Yeah, exactly. I can do three. Okay. So, so you get out, you do your three push ups and you’re probably gonna say, Oh, I can do 10.

I can do more, you know, and you want to keep going. The other thing is set yourself rewards. So once you are, you reach a certain stage, you always set yourself rewards and the things that you normally wouldn’t do for yourself. There are little [00:23:00] treats that you wouldn’t give yourself. You have to do something to earn.

So set yourself rewards. So you remember next time, Oh, I want that reward. Well, here’s what I have to do to get it. That’ll, you know, that’ll sort of act as a motivator. So yeah, those kind of things a little.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. Like taking away some of the barriers for yourself and, you know, incentivize yourself.

Make sure that you don’t set yourself up for failure because then, then it’s doomed from the start.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Exactly. Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: [00:23:30] So I came across another concept of yours that I thought was fascinating to discuss a little bit here. So you’ve said vulnerability, um, it can actually help become big people to become better leaders.

Sorry, I was falling over my words that, why do you think it’s such an important concept for, for leaders to, to grasp and to, to work with?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Well, I think it’s important because, uh, if they’re vulnerable, it will encourage others, you know, it will encourage those below them to, to be vulnerable, they’ll be open, and that encourages [00:24:00] connection.

If you see somebody that’s vulnerable, they’re human, you know, they, you know, will admit their mistakes, they don’t know everything, you know, they’re, they have real feelings and stuff, that builds really, really strong connections. So we’ll respect people that are willing to be open. and share and be vulnerable and come across like you’re, you know, they don’t know everything, they’re struggling as well, uh, but they’re trying and that builds very, that builds trust.

We trust people that are vulnerable or willing to help out and be vulnerable. It [00:24:30] builds strong connections and we want to be around those people. We trust them, we want to work with them, we want to, we want to do our best because we see them as, you know, like us. It creates a very, very positive, it lowers stress, we don’t have to worry that somebody’s going to be hiding, you know, their feelings and pretending that there’s something they’re not or hiding their mistakes.

The, one of the people that I know that teaches emotional intelligence to executives all over the [00:25:00] globe, that’s all he does, but he talks about the importance of taming our ego. And once we can, if we can tame our ego, you know, get our ego out of this, it makes things so much smoother. It makes things so much easier, um, because so much damage is done by people’s egos, you know, and, and it just, it throws up so many barriers that makes things so much more difficult than they need to be.

If we can just be open and vulnerable, it’s, it’s like a lubricant that, that just [00:25:30] makes everything work so much easier, so much smoother.

Elisa Tuijnder: Is vulnerability, you know, is that a part of, or is that actually just the same as being an authentic leader or authentic leadership?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s being, it’s, it’s being yourself and being, being honest, you know, when, when, you know, you don’t know something or when you’ve made a mistake or you’re not, not, not sure, just, just sharing that, you know, people are afraid that, you know, that, that will make them appear less in the eyes of, you know, [00:26:00] those, those, you know, their peers will appear less if they’re admit that are open.

The opposite is true. People will respect them. It takes courage to be vulnerable. And it’s somebody who, who does have, we’ll see somebody who does have courage and somebody who is authentic. Yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. It takes courage to say something and it takes courage to say sorry, and it takes all of these kind of things.

And I love that there is a bit of momentum also [00:26:30] in that, although there’s, there’s always a bit of back and forth, obviously. One of the other things that you spoke about, um, that I, that I kind of want to highlight here is this, this idea of mental toughness and the kind of habits that mentally tough people seem to share.

So do you want to highlight that or what, what did it have in common?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Well, well, mentally toughness is. It’s being able to be assertive. It’s assertive. A lot of people don’t understand the difference between assertiveness and aggressiveness. [00:27:00] Assertiveness

Elisa Tuijnder: is

Harvey Deutschendorf: being able to set our boundaries, you know, but respect other people’s boundaries.

You know, aggressive people push into other people’s boundaries, don’t respect them, and that makes them enemies. But you need to be assertive. And set your boundaries and be clear about what it is that you want and you expect. So, uh, people sometimes are afraid to do that because they’re afraid, you know, and they’re wishy washy.

One of the things is to learn [00:27:30] to say no when you really don’t want to do something. And the thing is to, again, for people that are afraid to do that, we need to Be polite, be kind and everything, but, but set different boundaries. No, I don’t want to do that, or I don’t, you know, but we have to do that even though it’s uncomfortable.

We can start really small, for example, you know, like, uh, if, if something isn’t right when you go into a restaurant and, you know, there’s something wrong with the food. Well, I don’t want to offend anybody, you know, but don’t ask [00:28:00] and ask directly. Don’t say, Oh, I’m sorry to, you know, like, no, just, just ask very politely.

But, but firmly, you know, there’s something wrong with this. Please do something, do that. And, and, and, and, you know, notice your emotions. You’re, it’s not comfortable, but, but just do it and see how it feels. And you keep doing that and it’ll become much more comfortable. And, and, you know, you’ll learn that people respect you for that.

And, uh, It’s a matter of just working through our comfort zone [00:28:30] every time we do that. Because sometimes people will take advantage of us, you know, if we’re not able to set those boundaries. So we have to be able to know who we want, know ourselves very well, and understand this isn’t getting me to where I want.

I need to be mentally tough. I need to know what I want and just sort of act and speak in terms of this is what I need to do to get where I want. In service of

Elisa Tuijnder: that. In service of that,

Harvey Deutschendorf: yes.

Elisa Tuijnder: [00:29:00] Um, so at Management 3point0, we are super big fans of like tangible practices. And so we want to end each podcast with a tangible practice that we can leave our listeners with or a strategy or something like that so that they can become more happier, practice more EQ, et cetera, or help themselves and help their colleagues.

So We’ve already established that everybody should go to the mountains this year or and have a sit down. Uh, and I would highly recommend that because I love that as well, but maybe they [00:29:30] can also do that in a different setting. But is there anything else you want to share, uh, today that people can leave the podcast with?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Oh yeah. Uh, I, I think people, you know, there’s, there’s toastmasters, people, you know, take courses in speaking. Sort of the poor cousin of that is listening. Listening is so important, but nobody’s teaching us listening skills. That is hugely important to build strong connections because if, if, the, a lot of people need to be listened to.

We don’t [00:30:00] need to give them advice, they just need to be heard. And if, if, if somebody listens to them, really listens to them, they will build a very, very strong connection with, with, with that person. Because it’s so rare, because usually, usually when somebody’s speaking, we’re coming up with our response in our minds.

We’re not really listening to what they’re saying. So here’s when we can to practice our listening skills. We, we get together with our partner or somebody, you know, we do this exercise. We say, Well, let’s see, you [00:30:30] take three minutes and, uh, you let the other person talk, and to get away from the idea that you’re going to have to respond, your part after they’ve spoken for three minutes is to feedback to them what they said, okay?

So that’s going to take away any urge for you to just respond, because your job is to listen and feedback, practice that. Practice that to what it takes to really be an active listener. And when you act, actually, uh, actively remember things about [00:31:00] people that they told you, that are important to you.

Little things, uh, that they’ve told you and after you see them, you know, let them know that you remember these things. That’s very important to people. Even people’s names, remember their names. Remember how to pronounce them right, properly. Our names are music to our ears. Somebody remembers their name. We feel a little more important to them.

You know, I can’t remember, you know, whatever. Somebody remembers our names, they remember something about us. Oh, [00:31:30] wow. You know, suddenly we gravitate to this person. We feel a strong connection with them. You know, they’re the type of person that we’re going to want to do something for, you know, we want to work with, we want to be around.

So work on that post active listening skills. Your, your, your relationships will change. And in a big way, not only at work, but in all areas of your life.

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. Listening with intent. Um, yeah, I, I was very lucky that you said nobody teaches us, [00:32:00] but I’ve noticed that I went to high school or even like a school.

Belgium, and we had an actual class learning how to miss it. Yeah, I figured out basically Belgium is the only country that I know of that actually has this course for school kids. And, and I think I learned a lot there and, and how to analyze what other people are saying, but, and also listening with intent and listening to listen, um, and to, to process the information.

So I feel like we’ve been very lucky in, in, in that, in that respect.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Yes. Belgians [00:32:30] used to be ahead of the curve, not non school system. I’m afraid,

Elisa Tuijnder: the weird thing, I’m afraid that they’re actually scrapped it now, if I’m, where my father is a high school teacher, and I think he said, yeah, no, we don’t think we do that anymore.

And I was like, that was one of the best things that I was taught in school. Yes. I love that tip. It’s, it’s, uh, it’s very important. And also finding touch points with people, right? Like the, I remember once there was a restaurant where I went once and the next time they asked me about something that I’d said, I don’t remember what it was, but it was about my car or something, whether it was [00:33:00] fixed and it was two months later and they were like, Oh, I know they have tools probably to write this down.

But I, after that, I went to that restaurant all the time. Because I was like, they remembered me and they remembered that I had a problem with my car.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Yeah, personal connection with them now. Yeah, yeah.

Elisa Tuijnder: Exactly. Then it’s no longer just a restaurant.

Harvey Deutschendorf: That’s right. Yes.

Elisa Tuijnder: Harvey, if people want to follow what you do, find your books, uh, anything else, where, where can they go?

Where can they, uh, they find you?

Harvey Deutschendorf: Well, uh, the other kind of smart. com, [00:33:30] uh, www, of course, the other kind of smart. com, it has both of the books on there. Um, there’s actually. On the site they can take, uh, I have an emotional intelligence quiz. It’s free and it’s fun. It’s like 15 questions. And it’s available in 120 languages.

It sells scoring as well. It’ll give you a score at the end, you know, so. And, uh, they know how to get in touch with me. They can, you know, there’s links if they want to buy my book. They can sell, uh, sign up for a newsletter. That, uh, sent out, [00:34:00] uh, uh, so, uh, and, uh, along with that, if you sign up for newsletter, you’ll get a free downloadable, um, it’s a motivating and inspirational, uh, emotional intelligence quote.

So, those, those are always a lot of fun. People love those. That little book of quotes.

Elisa Tuijnder: Amazing. Perfect. Yeah. I will make sure that we add it to the show notes as well, that everybody can, uh, jump into that afterwards and score themselves on how high or how low their, uh, EQ is and whether they need any follow up with you there.

[00:34:30] All right. Thank you for such a wonderful conversation, Harvey. Uh, it was very much a pleasure to have you on the podcast.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Well, I thoroughly enjoyed it, Lisa. Let’s, uh, you know, do it again sometimes.

Elisa Tuijnder: Absolutely. If it’s your next one, start writing.

Harvey Deutschendorf: Thanks a lot.

Elisa Tuijnder: You’ve been listening to the Happiness at Work [00:35:00] podcast by Management 3point0, where we are getting serious about happiness. Be sure to subscribe wherever podcasts, and if you enjoy our shows, don’t be shy. Write us a review, share the happiness with your colleagues, family, or friends. Follow us on Twitter, Facebook, or LinkedIn under Management [00:35:30] 3O.