What happens when the next generation challenges the workplace status quo—and dares to ask for more joy, autonomy, and meaning? 

In today’s episode, we meet Hannah Dannecker, an entrepreneur and author who’s on a mission to decode the generational shifts shaping today’s workforce. From navigating a pandemic-era career launch to redefining leadership in a family business, our guest brings raw honesty, bold ideas, and a refreshing perspective on how Gen Z is changing the way we work. Whether you’re leading them or learning from them, this conversation is a must-listen for anyone ready to grow up… and show up at work.

More information about The Better Together Group here.
More information about Hannah here.

Important Update for Our Listeners

Since 2016, The Happiness at Work Podcast has been a space for connection, curiosity, and meaningful conversation. Over 368 episodes, we’ve explored the many ways happiness, leadership, and purpose intersect across cultures, companies, and lives. We’ve learned from some of the world’s most inspiring thinkers, and I’ve been so honored to sit behind the mic as your host.

But the world has changed. We’ve changed. I’ve changed. And now, the podcast needs to evolve too. While we don’t yet know what the next format will be, we’re taking this moment to pause, reflect, and reimagine what comes next. This isn’t a goodbye—it’s a thank you. For listening, for sharing, and for believing in the power of happier, more human workplaces.

If you’d like to stay in touch, I’d love that.

You can find me, your host,

• 👉 on LinkedIn under Elisa Tuijnder 

                                                  
Management 3.0 is also evolving into M3K, and you can follow that exciting journey

• 👉on LinkedIn under M3K

• 👉 Newsletter on www.m3k.ai

Thank you again—and here’s to whatever comes next. 

Transcript

*Please note that the transcript has been automatically generated and proofread for mistakes. But remains in spoken English, and some syntax and grammar mistakes might remain.

Elisa Tuijnder: [00:00:00] Today we are thrilled to welcome Hannah Danker to the podcast. Hannah is a dynamic entrepreneur, managing partner and author of the book, well Shit, time to Grow Up With a Wealth of Experience. Hannah has made it her mission to decode the workplace challenges of the Gen G generation. Whoa, that was a hard one to say.

And empower leaders to bridge generational. G had a welcome to this show. Sorry for that tongue twister there for falling into words. Oh my 

Hannah Dannecker: goodness. Know it, it was beautiful to hear in your accent. I really enjoyed that. I absolutely love it. I’ve actually never heard someone with an accent say Gen Z before.

That was funny. I like it. It, 

Elisa Tuijnder: it’s funny how I, I fall over certain words and totally not over other ones. Um, it’s the, the mix of languages and mix of places I’ve lived and, and, and worked so. [00:01:00] Hey, I’m really excited to talk to you about the Gen Z generation, which is still hard for me to say right now. Um, but we cannot really start our show without asking our signature question, and that is what does happiness mean to you, Hannah?

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah, happiness to me. And so I think there is a happiness, which is, um, something that is temporary pleasure that happens in front of you every day. And then there’s joy, which is long-term pleasure. And that kind of like emanates through you all of the time. And, um, happiness is phenomenal. I’m always going for joy because happiness is temporary, but, um, specifically at work, it looks, Hmm, oh, I come from a family business.

So it looks like family at work. Happiness, for sure. Yeah. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Oh, nice. I, I love how you, because a lot of the times I, I’ve been in family business as well before and you know, most of the times it has this connotation that it’s actually difficult or extra [00:02:00] difficult, but there’s a lot of joy to be found in and a lot of happiness to be found in it as well.

Hannah Dannecker: Oh my gosh. I think that some of the best things in the world are challenging. I think that yes, absolutely. Anything, any, anything worth having is worth working for. So there’s, I’m not, yeah, I’m not here to say that. It’s so easy. It’s not, but it is, oh my gosh. Like the most phenomenal blessing it could have asked for, for, for a career ever.

But 

Elisa Tuijnder: yeah. Great. Hey, your, um, career has already quite been dynamic. Uh, could you share a little bit about, or, you know, dynamic in the best sense of word, uh, but could you share a bit about your journey, sort of the pivotal moments, uh, that shaped, shaped that career and shaped that drive and the passion that you have At the moment, we, we like to learn a little bit about the person that we have in front of us, so 

Hannah Dannecker: yeah, absolutely.

I’ll give you a little. Bird’s eye perspective, meaning you can ask me some questions based on whatever you’re interested in. Also, that mug is phenomenal. Thanks. I love that. That’s very cool. [00:03:00] But. Yeah. So I started my career. I was a, um, high school graduate, ready to go to university. I was like, what am I gonna do?

I wanna go to school for marketing, ’cause marketing is flashy and so cool. And I was ready for it. Mm-hmm. And one of my cousins said to me, and I was so mad about it in the moment, but I. Thankful for it. Now shut out Matt. He said, Hannah, if you go to school for marketing right now, the stuff that you’re gonna be learning that is in the books is already outdated from what is currently going on as society.

And I was like, oh, shot to the heart. Okay, that makes sense. That absolutely makes sense. We’re progressing at such a fast rate that that, that checks out. So I went to school for hr. And I graduated from university in the middle of the pandemic, and as the pandemic was going on, the border was getting shut down.

I was currently, or at that point in time, I was living in Florida and my family was in Canada. And I was like, well, I’m graduating. I’m looking at getting my first job. I was hoping to be a [00:04:00]teacher at the time, um, which didn’t allow for a ton of travel back because anytime that you went back to Canada, you had to do 14 days of isolation.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I remember those days. I was like. Oh my gosh. Yeah, right. So I was like, I, I guess I’m gonna move back to Canada. So I moved back to Canada and went to work for the family’s business, you know, pandemic. Best thing you could do is just dive right into family. And I, to be very honest with you, hated it.

At first. It was so bad. I, I was not bought in to anything. I was upset that I was there and I made all of these decisions, like on my own fruition, but. Was really upset about what was just going on around me and couldn’t get over this hurdle of, of sitting in an office space that had no windows for eight hours a day going into the office when it was dark, leaving the office when it was dark, going to sit in my basement apartment by myself.

I was whew, depressed. It was bad. And I said to my dad, I was like, I love you. I want to continue to do this, [00:05:00] but I can’t do this. The way that we’re doing it right now, like my brain, I will physically not be able to continue. And so he said, okay, well what do you need? And I said, I, I want to work from home once a week so that I can sit in a room that has a window so that if it’s rainy over the weekend, I don’t go 14 days without seeing the sun.

And he was like. Okay, that’s reasonable. I can give you that. And I said, and I want the opportunity to go back to Florida for a month in X amount of days. And I will do X to prove that I am ready to go and I will set myself up for success so that while I’m there, I’m super ready. But he had never let anybody work from home.

And even in the midst of the pandemic, he had pushed against the whole flexibility. He’s like, we are essential business. We’d go to the office. Mm. And so I said, I was like, I. I need this because I’m looking at a year of no vacation and borrowing one week into my first year. I’ve got two weeks. I’m gonna have one week this year.

[00:06:00] One week next year means I don’t go back to visit the rest of my friends that I just spent so much time making and investing in. And I was, uh, I was competing in wakeboarding at the time. That was a major part of it. Oh, nice. Yeah, because I was really dying to get back into this thing. Um. And just try and compete again.

And so all of this was going on. I was like, this is why I need it. This is my plan. And he was like, okay. So we did this. And as that started, I can, I can really vividly see this is a very pivotal moment for me when he said, based on those things, I can see me sitting in his office and just like. Begging him with the plan.

Um, and he said Yes. And I was like, okay. Phenomenal. And that moment started to change and had a rippling effect that completely shifted our culture and our entire organization and has allowed us to do so many phenomenal things. Like I’ve now moved back to the US permanently. I’ve opened up a division here.

Started speaking, talking to people about how to hire Gen Zs. After we started making some of those [00:07:00] changes, we did an internal interns and we did rounds and rounds and rounds of them and have found some of the most phenomenal employees because our culture is completely different. Yeah. And bringing in a whole new group of humans.

Hannah Dannecker (2): Yep. 

Hannah Dannecker: Um, but it. It’s, it’s so funny that that was definitely that pivotal moment. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah. Yeah. And so important, you probably also became 10 times the employee that you, you know, that you were then before, right? Because you had all this freedom and you were in a environment that you were comfortable with, and you were trusted and, you know, you saw the sun.

Absolutely. You just, you know, absolutely. Had, you were able to be so much better for the company as well than, than sitting in the office. Absolutely. Yeah. I, I, I wanted to ask you when you were talking, uh, and um, and I don’t know if you know the answer, but what was your, your dad’s initial drive to sort of hold on to this?

I am not letting, I, we, everybody’s coming to the office. Is this, uh, a control mechanism and we can go into this a little bit later? Or is this just like, [00:08:00] it’s just the way it’s done and that’s just, I don’t want to think about it otherwise. Is it a mixture of all of these things? Do you know a little bit about it?

His intentions there or his motives. Yeah. 

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah. I can speak to, to what I assume, um, but assume assuming anything is not the most fun. Yeah. So take this with a grain of salt. Mm-hmm. Um, but I think that I. He struggles to focus from home. He really struggles to focus from home. And so in his own perception originally that just didn’t make sense to him.

He was like, I need to be in an office. I need to be at a desk. If I’m home, I’m distracted. I’m with my kids, I’m with my spouse, I’m with my hobbies, whatever that is. Mm-hmm. He’s like, let’s go snow revealing. Let’s go. Like you don’t need to. He loves to play. And so in his brain, the concept I think of staying home and working from home just didn’t like it didn’t [00:09:00] compute.

But when I said, I was like, look like I was an online student and I was an online student before I. Online students even started, I did it. I did it in a high school. I did it in university. I did it way pre pandemic. I loved it. I am very self-motivated and self-driven. And I said, look, like I, here’s the Wednesdays, here’s the productivity we got.

Well, I was gone. I was like, now. Picture that, but for a month gone. Mm-hmm. And I just kind of showed him what it could look like, but then I had to live up to those things. Right. Like I had to pressure to go and do it and perform well and make sure that it was good. But just like what you said, the second that he started to lean into it and give me just a little bit.

I was mentally so much stronger and so much more capable to take on so many more things. And so it just, it continued to build on top of one another and has like been a beautiful thing since. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. So that’s why, you know, different, um, um, diversity and not just in, you know, um. All these, uh, kind of [00:10:00] normally the tick boxes, but in so many different things is so important in the workplace.

And Gen Z is one of them, right? Uh, gen Z is definitely one of them. And, and that’s why you’ve been writing about, that’s what you’ve been talking about on your own podcast. Um, I. But before we go, like, you know, dive a little bit deeper into that, I kind of wanna know, what do you sort of see as the main key differences with Gen Z in the terms of hiring, firing, workplace culture, the whole shabam, basically what defines them as a, as a culture, not necessarily outside, outside, outside, uh, outside of the workplace.

But let’s try and keep it inside of that, that box sort of, well, what do you think are sort of the key markers for that? 

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah, so there’s a couple differences and, and when I, when I talk to people about this, I do go back a little bit more to a bird’s eye perspective. ’cause I think that when you’re trying to understand somebody, it’s good to try to understand the generation based on what made them who they are, right?

So. All of these things mean he’s talk to anybody who’s been to therapy. They’re like, when [00:11:00]I was a kid, starts from the start. What happens? What happens when we’re children really affects us a lot. So, so there is, uh, technology, there’s human cooperation and globalization, and then there’s COVID-19. And these three things are kind of the, the three major things that help shape a Gen Z on average.

Every human is different, but on average, they’re kind of helping them. And so when you look at, um, COVID-19, we’ll talk about that. That’s the easiest one. It’s most recent. You see a kid, let’s say, between the ages and I, I should know how old they were, ranging two and from coming outta Covid, but I don’t actually, but let’s just, let’s guesstimate it.

Let’s say they were 14, 16 to 20. Three, I believe it was. Yeah. Um, as Covid was happening, so they are graduating high school, they’re coming into high school, they are in university, they’re graduating university and they’re in their first couple years of [00:12:00] their careers, pivotal moments. And so you take, absolutely, you take all of these humans in these massive mind.

Molding moments and you send them home and you say you can do anything from your bedroom. And they’re like, oh, I can do anything from my bed. How cool. I can attend classes, I can do all of my work. I can do all of my assignments, I can write tests, I can, uh, whatever. All from their bedroom. And they were told this from the most high of authority.

Mm-hmm. And so this has completely shifted their brain about what it means to go anywhere and be anywhere. They can be anywhere in their bed, they can be at work in their bed, they can be with their friends in their bed because they were told that they can be. And they experienced that from their government.

And so. That’s gonna really, and the whole world was doing 

Elisa Tuijnder: it. 

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so that’s gonna really shape the [00:13:00] way that they feel about coming into work and hanging out with their friends. And I mean, my husband and I, when we started dating, we started dating remotely and I was able to be on my very first dates with my husband.

In my bedroom. Wow. Yeah. And so it’s like, and, and, and well, he wasn’t there. Yeah. So they had separate very important distinctions. Yeah. Um, yeah. Sorry. But like, it was, it was so funny to see this difference. And so that’s gonna make your Gen Zs really flexible. That’s gonna make them really motivated internally.

That’s gonna make them really driven. They’re gonna be so organizationally, um. Independent, they are gonna be really good at coming up with problem solving. Mm-hmm. Just themselves. They’re gonna be completely different to manage 

Elisa Tuijnder: because the world is literally a cluster fuck of problems that they constantly have to navigate.

So, yeah. It’s 

Hannah Dannecker: so different. It’s so different. Mm-hmm. So [00:14:00] that’s gonna really change the way that they’re, they’re showing up at work, but then also technology. Technology’s a huge one. Mm-hmm. Advanced at such a rate that is insane. And I, I tell people that Gen Zs see technology and it’s funny. I’ll just show you.

Mm-hmm. Gen Zs see technology, like a body part. Okay? Mm-hmm. Like I wear tech on my body. Yeah. All of the time. I wake up, I put it on, I go to sleep, I take it off. That’s it. Um. But I am always getting notifications and always in tuned with something and always able to use it, uh, for whatever reason I want to, whether it’s to take pictures or to schedule a call or to send an email or whatever it is.

Mm-hmm. 

Elisa Tuijnder: To 

Hannah Dannecker: optimize and. Absolutely. So most generations have seen technology as a tool that can be used to do the things that they have to do. But Gen Zs kind of see technology as a body part that is just an additional function that is [00:15:00] so much more capable than anything else where, but we use it that way.

Like I use it like my brain. I tell people if I could, if I could remember all of the contacts in my phone, I’d be the best salesperson in the world. I can’t do that. I can hardly remember anybody’s name. I’m so bad at it. It’s embarrassing. We don’t need to 

Elisa Tuijnder: Right. Like, I mean, we, which you don’t need to. We have it on earth.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Hannah Dannecker: Absolutely. And so it’s just so funny to see the difference between ways that people are looking at this. And so when Gen Zs get into work and they get into the office, um, technology is really important to them. And so look at the computer that you’re giving them, the mm-hmm. The phone that you’re giving them, are they ancient?

Are they 10 years old? Are they taking five minutes to turn on? Are they dying the second they get unplugged from the wall, that’s gonna piss a Gen Z off? Mm-hmm. ’cause that’s a body part of theirs that you have given them that is struggling to function properly. Yeah. [00:16:00] And so when you think about it as this like body part piece, it really helps employers be like.

Oh, I’ve been handicapping my employees. I’ve been tying both of their hands behind their back because I don’t let them use chat, GPT or I don’t let them use, um, AI that helps them recap their meetings or whatever it is. But they’re so used to these tools that optimize every piece of their life that when you don’t give it to them or it’s unavailable to them, they’re like.

At a very significant loss and struggling to function at the best of their capabilities. And so that’s kind of one of the other pieces. And then to cap it all off, um, globalization through technology and through covid have again really shaped a human’s mind. So. My mom told me this story the other day.

She said, when your grandma went on vacation. And I was like, well, what, what, where? Where’d she go? She was like, oh, it’s the only vacation she ever took. And she was telling me this. I was like, the only vacation she ever took. I was like, I, that, that was a little bit [00:17:00] sad for me to hear. Yeah. I was like, that’s, I would love, I would’ve loved for my grandmother to have more than one vacation in her life.

And she was like, no. But that it was, it was. The time. It was my great grandmother, she was, you don’t take vacations. That was insane. That was beautiful for her to actually have the opportunity to even do one. Mm-hmm. And I was sitting here thinking, wow, how blessed I am. To be a public speaker, to get on a plane for my job, to fly across the country to different countries, and for it to be this average part of my life.

Hannah Dannecker (2): Mm-hmm. 

Hannah Dannecker: And so there’s this difference between the way that we see what travel looks like. It is so much more about my average life than it has been in other generations. Absolutely. And so that’s, that’s gonna come out really differently at work too. That’s gonna look like, uh. Truck drivers. I work with transportation all of the time.

I think Gen Zs are really gonna like transportation and truck driving and that our, um, driver [00:18:00] shortage is really gonna pivot and change a little bit, you know, fingers crossed, knock on wood. Um. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, if you, if you add the perks to it, I’ve, I’ve, it’s very funny that you say that. ’cause I’ve had this discussion with somebody who was like talking about, oh, I’m gonna have to close my, uh, trucking business because, you know, I can’t find any drivers.

I’m like, you can’t find any drivers, or are you giving them the wrong perks or are you giving them the wrong wages? And it wasn’t even about wages. I was like, Hey, have you thought about sort of making sure that if they are driving there, that they can stay there for a little while? Why did they have to stay back, come back straight away like you, and that was just like this mind blowing, like, yeah, no, you just.

Do this and that, and then you have your free time. I’m like, Hmm. But maybe like, you know, I, I get, you have to optimize it and like, but if you are really struggling that much to find any drivers, think about what you’re offering, think about what you’re offering, be creative about it, and you will find people, uh, okay.

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah, 

Elisa Tuijnder: absolutely. That’s funny that you say that one. 

Hannah Dannecker: Absolutely. So. So that, yeah, just they’re, they’re gonna wanna [00:19:00]travel, they’re gonna wanna go. So finding a sales person to go on the road was gonna be easier with Gen Z than it was with millennials. Millennials were like a family generation. They really wanted to be home every single night, and that’s phenomenal for them, but made it hard for employers and so.

Again, it’s just gonna change a little bit and, and shift a little bit as the next gen comes in. Yeah. But those are kind of the major things that change them at work. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, absolutely. And, and thanks for, for, for being so comprehensive about it. That’s really helped. I think it’s helped a lot for our listeners as well.

Um, one thing that, that, before we sort of look into what, what sort of solutions are and how to attract them, what are sort of these common misconceptions? Because you hear a lot, Eileen, I’m a, I’m a millennial. I’m definitely not one of the homebodies, by the way. I was luckily enough. Uh, but I get it. I understand where I come from and I totally see that in in, in, in, in some of my friends and people, uh, I’ve worked with.

Um, but sort of what I, our misconception is sort of, oh, as long as [00:20:00] they stopped, you know, eating avocado toast tend to save up a little bit. All these kind of misconceptions that are out there. And what are sort of the misconceptions around Gen Zs, uh, in the workplace, and, and, and how do you think, you know, we, people should, or managers at least, should address these.

Um, and so yeah, I’d love to have your take on that one. 

Hannah Dannecker (2): Yeah, absolutely. So. He stopped eating the avocado toast. I mean, oh no. It’s just so funny. 

Hannah Dannecker: Um, so. Gen Zs are often described as lazy. Mm-hmm. Uh, for sure. And I think that that goes back to, uh, they know how to work in their beds and they know how to work from their phones.

They don’t work, and they’re trying to optimize everything constantly. Right. Yeah, absolutely. Very efficiently efficiency. 

Hannah Dannecker (2): Mm-hmm. 

Hannah Dannecker: Very differently than other generations. And so other generations have looked at that and gone, oh, [00:21:00] lazy. And it’s like, no, no, no, no, no. Just different work. Smarter, not harder, different 

Elisa Tuijnder (2): ways.

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah. So, so there’s that for sure. I think that’s like the main, most insane one. Mm-hmm. And then the next one is, people ask me all the time, they’re like, gen Zs, like I just, I don’t get it. They have like a bigger wall up than other generations who have come before them. And. I struggled to speak to this because I am a Gen Z myself, and I don’t, I don’t have experience from a different generation coming in and having another generation come up underneath me, and so it’s hard for me to say that yes, this is a bigger wall than others have had before.

But from what I understand, I think that it is an absolutely reasonable thing to say because. Gen Zs have come into a world where the concept of like influencing has completely shifted and changed, and influencer has become, um, a human in their everyday life. And. [00:22:00] Everybody around them is trying to influence them at every single moment of their day, they wake up, they have notifications, they open their phone, they have notifications.

They go on TikTok, they go on Instagram, they go on YouTube, they go on, uh, Spotify, they go on any podcast, they go on any, anything is influencing them for some way, shape, or form, and they have. Built this massive guard around them to protect themselves from that. And so other generations are trying to connect with Gen Z and they’re really struggling because this wall is so big and they’re like, I don’t know how to have an effect with this generation.

I don’t know how to connect with them in a way where they can accept what I’m giving them. And you’ve really just gotta stand there and take those bricks down one by one. But people all the time are like, I just like, they’re just not listening. It’s not that they’re not listening, they’re, they’re.

Programmed to turn it off. Yeah. 

Elisa Tuijnder: The noise. Yeah. To turn the vol, to turn the volume down. Is that also you think And Yeah. And for, for good reason. Right. Is it also because [00:23:00] they’re extremely, um, or we’re talking cliches a little bit as well, but that they’re, uh, tend to be very opinionated and have strong, um, uh, strong opinions about certain things and won’t be sort of swayed towards as easily towards one way or the other.

Uh, and therefore also can come across as having. Disrespecting authority or, or anything like that, which I think would all has happened because of very good reason and we should all be listening way more, uh, and telling way less, uh, as employee, as employers and leaders. Uh, but do you think that has something to do with it as well?

Hannah Dannecker: I love that you said that we have to be listening more. That’s one of the things that I give in my presentation. I say, listen to learn, learn to understand. And then once you understand is when you can speak. And it’s so hard to miss that middle step. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Exactly. Like 

Hannah Dannecker: your 

Elisa Tuijnder: dad. Right. You know, once he understood, like, and he understood that it wasn’t even, it wasn’t a malicious thing, but it’s like, okay, yeah, these people are actually really good at working like this.

I don’t get it because I, I have this separation. [00:24:00] And then all of a sudden, you know, you can grow from that. Mm-hmm. 

Hannah Dannecker: Absolutely. And the funny thing is, is once I did it, you know, other people wanted to, we ran the program, it took probably a couple of years, but we’ve transitioned into a very remote environment and he saw lots of people start to do it and he was like, well that looks kind of nice.

Maybe I could, maybe I wanna do this result. And he, and he learned that he can. And so it’s so funny to see the difference between. Between the two and, and you can really, um, not only have a, a different shift of opinion, but you can literally change your own ways. Uh, but I’m so sorry. I actually forget the original question that you asked me.

I got too excited. The listening part. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Yeah, exactly. I don’t remember either. Now I think what I was, what I was heading towards, ’cause basically, you know, how do we. Bridge these generational gaps, uh, effectively. Oh no, the original question was around, um, is it because they’re very opinionated and sort of don’t take, um, [00:25:00] authority or are no, have this perception or people have this perception that they’re not taking authority very well or respect their elders or something like that.

Hannah Dannecker: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So this kind of gets back to like the technology piece. They’ve had this. Piece of information in their pocket since as long as they can remember. Mm-hmm. They’ve been able to google research anything as long as they can remember. And so while they appreciate the authority that stands next to them, it’s not as, it’s not the same as it has always been.

It is. It’s not as gate. 

Elisa Tuijnder: It’s not as gate kept. Right. Yeah. 

Hannah Dannecker: They’ve had, yeah, exactly. They’ve had 

Elisa Tuijnder: more information available to them Exactly. For them, them form their opinions. 

Hannah Dannecker: Exactly. So it is a, I will have a respect for you. I can appreciate who you are as a human. I can appreciate all that you have been through to get to the spot that you are being, but I will not immediately take everything that you say for face value.

Mm-hmm. Because then they just go back and they fact check everything. Mm-hmm. And so it, it [00:26:00] really does have to be very copacetic if you can say. Hey, this is what I, and this is my piece of what, what do you do here? Like, how do you work with these Gen Zs? Like if all of this is true, like what the heck are we doing as employers and, and what do we do about it?

If you can work with this, um, hand in hand, uh, mentor over manage. Don’t manage them. Mm-hmm. It’s we’re, it’s 2024, we’re moving through this. Like, yes, at some point you do need to be standing there. You do need to be telling them what to do, and you are their manager. But the way that we are doing that is through mentorship Now.

It is not a dictatorship at this point in time. Absolutely. Like, like it just doesn’t. Work very well. And so you stand there hand in hand and you help explain their why. Why are you doing what you’re doing every day? Why am I asking you to do what you’re doing? What’s the effect on the other side of this?

And help them get those pieces of information so they can accept that and happily do it because they know why they’re doing [00:27:00] what they’re doing. Yeah, it makes it so much easier. Then I also say give them something yummy. I understand. People are like, people are like my Gen Zs, like they have to do these files.

I’m like, yes, they have to file my Gen Zs. They have to make these phone calls. Yes, yes. They have to set my appointments. Yes. I don’t doubt that. But if you gave them two hours of work every week, that got them excited. Maybe they wanted to be an event planner. Yeah. They just didn’t have the opportunity. So you let them plan the holiday parties for the, for the office every single week, or for the warehouse or for whatever.

Maybe they really wanted to go into marketing. This is what my dad did with me. He was like, go take our marketing. Do it two hours a week. Just make something happen. I was like, okay. And we’ve. Completely shifted our entire brand. Like it looks so different today and it’s gone completely different directions and it’s phenomenal.

Yeah. And we love it. But it wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t give me the opportunity and didn’t see some of the [00:28:00] value from it. So it just gives him something tiny that they can get so excited about and it keeps him coming back for more. Yeah. Um, there’s so many things that you can do, but I feel like those are two of the very, very effective, the why and the something yummy, like a little piece of steak at the end of the week.

Elisa Tuijnder: I used to do this sneakily. I remember one of the first and only, no, that’s not the altar, but one of the ones that I was a horrible office job and it was like such a repetitive job and I used to like sneakily sort of like try to find ways to make it more. You know, optimize it and then kind of wrote for everyone, like sort of guidelines on how to do it to do it.

But I kind of, I didn’t have a mandate to it, but I was so bored with just like the man, like just with the, with the like day-to-day mundane stuff that I was just trying to find ways to make it more exciting. Uh, and I guess that, yeah. It’s like, oh my gosh, I didn’t last very long there. Not in the sense that they fired me.

They were very happy with the thing that I made, but I was like, I cannot, I cannot, no. I need a mandate basically to go, Hey, do your thing, uh, [00:29:00] do more than just this basically data entry kind of, sort of thing. Uh, and I was like, ah, 

Hannah Dannecker: that’s, but that’s ex, and that’s exactly it. Like if you give somebody, imagine if you give somebody like you who has.

Drive and has vision and has like critical thinking skills, just two hours a week. Just like whatever you see, just whatever you think needs to be done, whatever you’re interested in, just do it. And then, uh, that the crap you would get that would just make you so much better because if you listen to the people on the ground floor, you’re getting gold.

Exactly. And it just is, it’s so interesting. Exactly. I love when people do that. Just take a little lit of my, oh my gosh. Sometimes. We see this in, in, um, applications when people apply, they’ll be like, so we love your application and here’s, here’s my letter. But also you could have done this and you could have done this, and you could have done this.

Just saying in, in your job ad. I’m like, oh, bring that person in right now. I wanna see them immediately. [00:30:00] It’s funny what the initiative does. 

Elisa Tuijnder: It’s, it’s really funny because in this place, what happened is I got a, uh, I got a different job, but I, I actually quite liked working there in a bizarre kind of way.

Like, I really liked the people. So I went to them with this offer and I went like, Hey, do you wanna counter, like, uh, I can sort of start taking more responsibility. They’re like, we really love you. You’re doing amazing work, but you’re basically too good to work here. We basically just want people who follow.

Just sit here and do their thing. So just take that job. And I was like, I think that was one of the first things that Lily led me to this point of working in happiness at work and workplace culture. ’cause I was like so mind blown that that was like, um. That was like sort of the, the, yeah. The ethos of this place and how that could, could continue.

And I think they still work like this and there’s still pieces that, that do this, but, but we could be so different. And I think that’s, it’s one of those sort of pivotal moments that led me to this. 

Hannah Dannecker: That’s, that’s so interesting. And, and. [00:31:00] What they’re doing is not wrong. And what you did is phenomenal because 

Elisa Tuijnder: there

Hannah Dannecker: is 

Elisa Tuijnder: also hiring for For fits.

Yeah, 

Hannah Dannecker: yeah, yeah. Employers have all types of needs and you have so many different types of humans in the world, like we are as. Human race are just so interesting. There’s lots of us, you know, and so there are jobs for everybody. There are roles for everybody. And there is somebody who has absolutely zero desire to do any sort of optimization.

Absolutely. And they just wanna show up. And they just wanna move the pen from this side of the, from the side of the line to the side of the line where if that person puts the cap on it, like they, they don’t need anything crazy. And that’s. Phenomenal. And honestly, thank goodness for that employer to say, Hey, you know what?

This isn’t gonna be for you. Bless your heart, you’re phenomenal. Go find something else. Like that’s. True. That’s great. But what a, what a phenomenal pivot to get you into where you are today. How can, 

Elisa Tuijnder: [00:32:00] yeah, but because I, and I guess what I have learned over the time, indeed there is something like, you know, hiring for cultural fit, all of these kind of things.

If you are a personal like me who’s like, let’s go and optimize everything and let’s go and do this, and maybe we can do that and. Start this new thing, then I shouldn’t be working at that place. And, and that is, and, and if they wanna sort of stay in this sort of quadrant or, or that kind of workplace culture, that’s fine.

But we also have to sort of make that clear and intentional and, and, and speak out loud that that’s sort of what we want, um, want from our employees. And that’s a really important piece as well. Saw you go. Yeah. I was 

Hannah Dannecker: like, sounds like you should be running that place to me. Like you can come in for a couple of minutes and that’s good and dandy, but you climb that ladder so fast, you go running the whole joint.

Let’s go people. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Hey, you talk, obviously you do a lot of round hiring and, and stuff like that. And, and we’re gonna get to your book as well in a second, but you talk around, um, the three is intentionality, intensity, and integrity in your hiring approach. Mm-hmm. Is that. Sort of what [00:33:00] we were just talking about.

Could you elaborate a little bit on that one? 

Hannah Dannecker: Sorry. Amazon practices. Sorry, we’re gonna have to go back. My notifications went crazy and I lost you. That’s all right. Don’t worry. Oh, I still can’t hear you. One second. Back to the audio. Oh, I hate it when it does that. 

Elisa Tuijnder: That’s what is part of your,

whoop. Sorry, say something again. Yeah, can you hear me now? That’s when it’s part of your body, right? Then that someone Exactly. It just reminded me that I forgot to put my, my non podcast recording my, uh, my notifications. Um, no. Yeah. I’ll, I’ll start with the, with the question again then. Um, let’s give it five seconds so we know where to, or like cut off.

Yeah. Hannah, you also speak about the, the three is in, in your hiring processes, [00:34:00] which you’ve ified of intentionality, intensity, and integrity. Uh, is sort of that kind of thing what we were talking about in the sense like, you know, hiring for cultural fit or, you know, making sure that it’s clear what kind of company you are.

Is that what you mean by that? Or do you wanna kind of elaborate a little bit on what your three I stand for? 

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah, absolutely. So the three eyes they, they originated out of, um. And you’ll like this. Uh, what short forms is WTF? Uh, work hard, tell the truth and finish the Job. And those were three mottos that my dad had kind of set for himself as a young employee as he was kind of growing up.

He. He struggled to finish the job and he just saw it time after time and he is like, okay, I really need to do this. And so he, he told it to himself. He started working on it. A motto in our household, WTFI love it. Yeah. And then he was like, tell the truth. He was a salesperson. He would work for a lot of different companies and sometimes they asked him to do stuff but he was not comfortable with, and [00:35:00] so he’s like, I.

Need to always just tell the truth. And so that became the next thing. And then, uh, work hard. He was like, I so like he struggles to work hard. He loves to play and so he had to remind himself work hard. So the WTF kind of came out, was a joke in our family for a long time, and it’s have to actually, on the back of my shirt, I could show you.

I love it. We have a bunch of logos around it now with our, with Revolution Staffing. The, the staffing agency for drivers. ’cause drivers love it. Yeah. But, uh, so out of this WTF came the three eyes because we also have this other more. Culturally appropriate for a office place, uh, side that is just intentionality, integrity, and intensity.

So all of those, one of those three kind of falls into each of the eyes. And so we’ve got integrity, like, what are you behind the closed door? What are you doing when nobody is watching? Are you still the same human? And so we kind of wanna have that piece of integrity. Everything we’re doing, we’re showing up with like [00:36:00] our fullest of self.

And that self is the same everywhere we go. Right, right. And then. We’ve got intensity. The staffing is hard. Hiring is hard. You have to be intense. You have to show up every single day. Sometimes you’re getting calls at 2:00 AM in the morning because someone didn’t show up for their shift. Or sometimes there’s an accident at 4:00 AM and you’re like, Hmm, okay, this is intense.

I am up, yeah, gotta do this. So there’s intensity and then there’s the intentionality. Um, everything goes through seasons. We’re going through a season right now where there’s not that many jobs and there’s so many candidates out there looking for work. A couple years ago, we were in a completely different season.

There 

Elisa Tuijnder (2): was so, 

Hannah Dannecker: so many, so many jobs, and no one was looking for work. And so we go through these phases and we have to be really intentional about what we’re doing every single day when we show up so that we’re prepping for what is to come, because it’s always the opposite of what you’re. Experiencing right now or expecting.

So we have these three things. Exactly, exactly. We have these three things that come in and we just, we talk about them as [00:37:00] a company all the time. We we’re using them originally as internal hiring. We were like, we, we try to bring these, these people into our team that have the three eyes. We talk about them all the time in our, in our interviews.

We talk about them all across our website. We talk about them in all of our, not all of our podcasts. Lots of our podcasts. Yeah. Yeah. So many of our morning meetings, like these three things are just regularly chatted about, um. But then we wrote a book about it, so this was one of the first ones that I did, and I did it with my dad and it is very small, very brief.

We’re actually looking at expanding it right now. Oh, nice. Yeah, version two, which I’d be really excited about, but it just kind of explain. I’ll have to get you back on the podcast then. Yes, definitely. Because very much what 

Elisa Tuijnder: we love this, this values and living by your values and, and. Yeah. 

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah. So, uh, so yeah, we’re, it, it explains the three, it kind of walks through that whole story of origin and how we got to, why those things were so important.

And then it is really just a book that allows somebody who is an employer to keep notes, gives you some questions [00:38:00] that you can ask to understand if a person has these characteristics. Mm. And kind of helps, helps guide that interview for you. And then it just gives you space to keep note for all of it so that it’s in a, a nice, easy, I wish I had one on my desk.

I’d pull it out and show you. Um, yeah. But it’s, uh, yeah, just a very, very, very simple way to keep track of all of your interviews. And if you’re doing a lot of interviews, you know, you do a lot of them, so it’s good to the spot to keep ’em all together. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Amazing. I, I really love that. And really keeping, it’s so good to keep, to make the process not less arbitrary as well, and making sure that it continuously connects to what you’re looking for.

And it’s also very clear for the candidate, like sort of mm-hmm. Like if they’ve done their research, they know what you’re looking for, uh, and they know sort of what kind of, um, what kind of values they have to, to, to bring and, and what kind of traits that they have to bring. Um, I’m, I, I’m really, uh, and, and I really wanna keep talking, but we we’re gonna have to start, uh, getting to the end.

But you just talk about, start, um, talked about the book that you wrote with your dad, but you wrote another really cool book [00:39:00] and that we’ve already mentioned very briefly, um, in the, in the introduction titled Wel Shit, time to Grow Up. And I feel like I still think yes. I still think that regularly, although I’m mid thirties now.

Uh,

uh do you wanna let us, uh, talk a little bit about what it’s about? Yeah. And then sort of give the little plug about why you wrote it and, and what it’s really about. Yeah. 

Hannah Dannecker: Absolutely. I feel like now I should go back and put the time to grow up in quotes because it’s like, is it time to grow up or are we just all just like little adults walking around with no idea what’s going on?

But the whole concept was, uh, was doing this travel dating somebody in the US going back doing so, so many 14 day quarantines. I think I did. Five-ish of them, um, in one year. I did a few of them, them, yeah. Lots of social isolation, socialized, isolation, 

Elisa Tuijnder (2): whatever 

Hannah Dannecker: that right word is. I was by myself a lot and um, had lots of reflecting and.[00:40:00]

I was experiencing a lot of, um, large emotions through that time. It was kind of struggling to come into my own, to know how to deal with some of those things. And I was getting some amazing advice from, from my mom and some wonderful people around me, but I always kind of took it, unfortunately, with a grain of salt.

Mm-hmm. Because I was like, love my mom, but she is much older than I am and so she hasn’t experienced these things in a really long time. And so I. Loved the, the TV show growing up. Uh, good luck, Charlie, and loved the concept of. Giving a piece to the next person to pass to you. And so I started a diary and I was just writing it for my kids one day.

And I was like, I wanna give it to my children to just be like, this is what I was experiencing when I was your age. You’re not alone and I love you. And if there’s anything I can do to help you, like let me know. And so that’s kind of the way that it started and as I was going through it. Thank you. As I was going through it, I was using all of these [00:41:00] different stories from all of these different people in my life that I loved so much and all of the things that they had taught me.

And I was like, ah, how selfish to keep these to myself. Like, I really wanna share these with these people. They’ve made a huge impact on my life. Yeah. I would like them to know it. And so I typed them out and after I typed them out, I was like, well, now, I mean, I guess I just have to publish this. It’s a book.

Like it’s basically there. And so I started putting it together and. Somehow I finished it, you know, finished strong. She reigns in my blood pretty, pretty deeply. And so I, I finished it out and yeah, that’s kind of how the whole thing came together. But it is a, it’s a, it’s a nod to my one day kids, and I think that it could be really helpful to anyone, but it’s just, it’s, it’s full of little nuggets of wisdom that different people had left with me from, from different experiences.

Elisa Tuijnder: Oh, I love that ire. I really like how the way it started and evolved and, and I, I see that a lot with people I have on the podcast. They’re just like, yeah, I did all this research for myself and I did all of these things and I left them. And then I thought, I [00:42:00] can’t just keep this to myself. I need to pay it forward.

Mm-hmm. And then they find a way to do it somewhere. Theater. And I, I, I really love to get, I, I love that people are, uh, that I get to meet so many people who, who feel the need to do that. Um. Yeah. All right. Hey, so we are gonna have to wrap up now. So as we, uh, as yes, stagger to the heart again, uh, but we always like to leave our listeners with some, you know, tangible advice, actionable tips, something that they can start practicing as soon as possible, uh, and don’t need the buy-in of.

All senior leadership, et cetera. Is there anything that you can leave us with, uh, for around Gen Z, around happiness, around the combination of Zers, gen, Zs, and happiness? Um, uh, would be even more fantastic. 

Hannah Dannecker: Yeah, I think I would, I would go back to the, to the feed them something yummy. Mm-hmm. Mentor over manage them and give them their why.

And if you can give them those three [00:43:00] things in the workplace, uh, you’re gonna have some very happy Gen Zs. It’s not about the ping pong table. 

Elisa Tuijnder: No, it’s not about, or a pizza party. Or it’s 

Hannah Dannecker: not about the pizza party. They like those things. That’s fine and dandy and that’s. So fun to do, but that is not doing the same job that you want it to.

Oh, they’re definitely, 

Elisa Tuijnder: they’re not a payment. 

Hannah Dannecker: You’re doing, 

Elisa Tuijnder: they’re not a payment. Mm-hmm. 

Hannah Dannecker: They’re 

Elisa Tuijnder: not remuneration. 

Hannah Dannecker: No, no. And honestly, and, and payment isn’t respect. Right? Mm-hmm. Like I, I, I showed up to work every day because I get paid. Yes. But if I showed up and my employer was disrespectful to me, I’m out.

I’ll find another job. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So it’s, it’s, it’s funny there’re they’re a whole new, a whole new crew of people, but by 2025 there’s gonna be 27% of them in the workforce. Yeah. Um, or sorry, the workforce will be 27%. Sorry. That’s the, that’s the proper way. 27% Gen Z. So there’s, there’s enough of ’em here to learn how to work with them.

Elisa Tuijnder: Oh yeah. Absolutely. And I think, you know, in combination with the [00:44:00]millennials who are sort of in that, um, InBetween stage where some of them are more leaning towards what you’re describing, and some of them still sort of have that idealism around, you know, come home and everything is nine to five and, and everything’s perfect.

But the combination of them, the, the workplace is very much populated with them, uh, with people, with idealism, the people who want to drive things forward and with people who demand respect in, in, in, from, from their employees. And don’t just sit there. And take everything obediently. The definitely the, the times of command and control leadership should be well over and, and should never come back as well.

In my opinion. 

Hannah Dannecker: Mm-hmm. I would agree. I’d second that. Here. Here. 

Elisa Tuijnder: All right, Hannah. Um, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Uh, if anybody would like to follow your podcast, which I just forgotten the name about, it’s work, work, work. 

Hannah Dannecker: Yes, work. So I got it. I, I’ve got, I’ve got way too much stuff going on, unfortunately.

I actually have three other books. Um, uh, you can, you can find [00:45:00] everything though on the website, X two Z. So XTOZ, uh, dot ORG. And if you say it. Really fast, you’ll make yourself giggle and you’ll never forget it. But that’s where you can find everything for me. 

Elisa Tuijnder: Okay, perfect. We’ll also make sure that we link that in the show notes so that people can find everything that you’re up to and all the exciting stuff, uh, that is going on in your life.

So thank you again, Hannah, for coming on the show. 

Hannah Dannecker: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. This has been so much fun.